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1932 Penn RR Dining Car Cooking Instructions

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gracoman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 September 2013 at 16:24
I lifted this from another site.  Very cool.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2013 at 18:39
Never cooked a dining car before... does it taste like chicken? Cool

lol, thanks for the link, I love old stuff like this, looking forward to reading through it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gracoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2013 at 20:31
Take your time with it.  There is a wealth of information in there.  Sauces, recipes and techniques that should be remembered and perhaps restored in the dark ages of fast food.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hoser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 01:36
Generous portions they served back then as well.
Go ahead...play with your food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 09:49
A treasure trove, indeed! I was scrolling through it and came across their recipe for "carbonade;" it didn't use beer, but there were quite a few interesting similarities to the Carbonade Flamande that I love to make.
 
 
An incredible resource - thank you for finding and sharing this!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 18:41
One question... what size is a kitchenspoon?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2013 at 22:51
Ron, in 1932 Prohibition was still in force, which is why no beer was called for in the carbonade recipe. 

There a PHD thesis waiting for somebody on the effects Prohibition had on cuisine. Among the things is killed were dishes like terrapin soup with sherry, which had been an iconic Maryland dish. Many others as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2013 at 08:13
Thanks gman, great reference
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2013 at 08:43
Originally posted by Brook Brook wrote:

Ron, in 1932 Prohibition was still in force, which is why no beer was called for in the carbonade recipe. 

There a PHD thesis waiting for somebody on the effects Prohibition had on cuisine. Among the things is killed were dishes like terrapin soup with sherry, which had been an iconic Maryland dish. Many others as well. 
 
Of course! I didn't think about the time frame, but that would do it.
 
Interesting that you mention about a thesis; something like taht would be not only interesting, but also fun, I think. If you ever want to do a collaberative paper for an article, let me know!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gracoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2013 at 09:32
Originally posted by pitrow pitrow wrote:

One question... what size is a kitchenspoon?
Thanks for bringing this up.  It has brought back long forgotten memories.

I don't know if this applies but it is as likely as not.  When I was growing up, back in the age of dinosaurs, all of the women (women were the faminly cooks back then) in my family kept on their stoves what was referred to as "the kitchen spoon".  There was one and only one.  The bowl was larger and the handle longer than any eating spoons but it was not a serving spoon.  The kitchen spoon was an all purpose, go-to utensil of choice for any one of a number uses during the cooking process.  Stirring, gravy making, moving cooked or cooking foods from one pot or to another or from pot to serving dish.  The kitchen spoon was always a battle scarred piece of equipment with the bowl somewhat flattened on the side favored from stirring and all of them seemed to be about the same size.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2013 at 09:37
I was thinking the same thing, gMAn - I can see it in my mind's eye, almost exactly as you describe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2013 at 12:01
Also keep in mind that the galley on those trains was rather small, and equipment had to be kept to a minimum. So one spoon, used to measure everything, would fit right in.

It's no different that the old-timers who "never measured." Nonsense! I'd but good money that if you stood next to your old granny, and measured it every time she used a pinch of salt, or a handful of flour, there's wouldn't be much difference one time to the next.

Not using formal measuring tools is not the same as not measuring. As will all cooking, the key is consistency. A Pullman chef who added the tip of the kitchen spoon of X to a dish no doubt added the same amount every time.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2013 at 15:07
To go along with what Brook is saying. Have you ever watched the Wok guy at the chinese takeout make your dinner? He'll use a ladle or a spatula to scoop almost every non-meat or vegetable ingredient that goes in the wok. If the person is good everything turns out the same every time. Practice, practice, practice.

But what size is a kitchen spoon? I don't know but I would guess it to be the size of a slotted spoon without the slots. Whatever that means...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2013 at 15:28
My guess would be slightly smaller than that, Rod.

A spoon comparable to a slotted spoon holds, depending on maker, about 2 1/2 tablespoons. A kitchen spoon would be more like 1 3/4-2 tablespoons. More like a long-handled, old-fashioned soup spoon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2013 at 15:34
I used to work in a couple of restaurants, and I can see it in my mind: a long handled, large spoon used for stirring pots. Not sure how much it held, but it's basically just like any stirring spoon you would expect to see in a commercial kitchen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2013 at 17:08
Well I did a little research and of at least a dozen internet sources, all say a kitchen spoon is equal to 1 teaspoon. It appears these sources are probably circular, meaning they reference one another as a source, so it's likely they all quote one unreliable source.

I go to the referenced book for information and come up with two things that tell a lot. One is a recipe for a chicken salad sandwich that requires one kitchenspoon of chicken salad to make the sandwich. And another recipe that calls for the making of a roux with 1/2 cup flour and one kitchenspoon of butter. This would lead me to believe that Tas has it right. I've seen a bunch of those types of spoons in commercial kitchens and I think it would fill a sandwich or equal about 1/2 cup of butter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gracoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2013 at 17:10
This is the type and size of what was referred to as "the kitchen spoon" as I remember them.
Larger than a soup spoon but smaller than a commercial spoon.  Notice the flattened area at the bowl's point from years of stirring.  I found this picture labeled "Old Kitchen Spoon" when I searched for images of a kitchen spoon, not that that would mean anything, but the pic is just as I remember them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2013 at 18:26
That I would call a serving spoon, but I'm not so sure we're gonna get to the bottom of this. One thing I can be certain of, in regards to the Penn RR cookbook, a kitchen spoon most certainly is not equal to one teaspoon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Effigy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2013 at 21:30
Let me shed some colonial light on this.
I am fortunate enough to have some of both my Grandmothers' and my Mothers' cutlery. Also a copy of the Edmonds' Cookery Book.

First a quick explanation of Edmonds. My copy dates to the 1985. I know it is largely unchanged from my Mother's copy and my Grandmothers'. Sadly both of those are long gone. However at the time I bought mine I had access to both of the older versions and I remember comparing them both with my then 'new' version at the time. The only changes in 1985 from the 1955 edition were the cover design and the inclusion of some metric conversions. Delightfully it employs the now obsolete measure 'dessertspoon' which is in fact a contemporary tablespoon. It also employs an even more obsolete Tablespoon measure... to explain...

In the image below spoon 'A' is part of a much larger canteen that served my family from the mid 1880's to the present, each subsequent generation buying replacements for the dining room as pieces wore out and were demoted to kitchen use. By kitchen use I mean everyday use before being further demoted to cooking. Spoon 'A' is the 'Dessertspoon'



Which brings me to how this might help with the Penn book.

In the other image is a dessert canteen that was never used, Mum didn't like it. However it contains the elusive 'Tablespoon' - Spoon 'C'. (Spoon 'B' from the un loved set is also a dessertspoon measuring 15mls).

Now I remember our old 'Kitchen' spoons from the older larger family canteen and they were all the same size as spoon 'C' just in the more familiar oval shape. I don't have them, the ones that became Kitchen spoons were not worth keeping, silver plating worn off, flat on one side from years of service and long since gone to the trash. Fortunately my Sister inherited their still pristine Mappin and Webb replacements, so I got her to confirm that the measurement I tested on spoon 'C' was the same for the old kitchen spoons, it is.

The result;
Spoons A and B are 'dessertspoons' both are 15mls, which according to Edmonds is now a tablespoon. Spoon 'C' (the Tablespoon or Kitchen spoon) is 37.5mls (2 1/2 dessertspoons).

Hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gracoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2013 at 21:46
Originally posted by Effigy Effigy wrote:

... each subsequent generation buying replacements for the dining room as pieces wore out and were demoted to kitchen use. By kitchen use I mean everyday use before being further demoted to cooking. Spoon 'A' is the 'Dessertspoon'

... Now I remember our old 'Kitchen' spoons from the older larger family canteen and they were all the same size as spoon 'C' just in the more familiar oval shape. I don't have them, the ones that became Kitchen spoons were not worth keeping, silver plating worn off,

Thank you so very much!

This may be how things went down.  It makes perfect sense to me and I remember wondering as a kid why the kitchen spoon wasn't as shiny as the others.

Those were different times. Regular folks didn't have the same luxury of large sets of flatware as they do now. Most of the women I used as examples received the families flatware as wedding gifts.  Perhaps the kitchen spoon was a worn or sacrificial serving spoon.  Old and worn makes more sense to me.   There is the obvious ware from stirring.  My grandmothers kitchen spoon showed quite a bit more ware than the spoon pictured.

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