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5-Ingredient Unfix

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HistoricFoodie View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 October 2013 at 14:15
Ron issued a challenge, yesterday, to make a Spam dish using only five ingredients (http://www.foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/topic3844_post28204.html#28204)
He really pushed my button with that. And, rather than threadjack his contest further, I figured it best to start a new thread.

Am I alone in thinking the five-ingredient thing was the stupidest culinary trend of modern times? It's an artificial constraint that does not achieve its stated goals. About the only thing it accomplishes is making money for its proponents through the sale of books, TV shows, and speaking engagements.

The avowed purpose is to simplify cooking. This implies that there is a certain magic number of ingredients, below which food is simple to prepare, above which it is complex.

Does anybody here really believe that nonsense? Simplicity or complexity is not a function of the number of ingredients. It's a matter of the techniques and food-handling methods that go in to preparing the dish.

On the Spam thread, for instance, Dan posted a Spam stir fry recipe. The height of simplicity. Yet, it has 8 stated ingredients, and I bet he left some out, like salt, pepper, soy sauce....

Whoops! My bad. In order to force recipes into the five-ingredient rubric, proponents have a long list of "these don't count" ingredients. Nobody ever explained why those are not counted. And they're sure not leaving them out of the recipes. But, among them are salt, pepper, other spices, water, oil, and even vinegar.

Also going without explanation: If a product is used in different forms, it is only counted as one ingredient. For instance, orange zest and orange juice, used in the same recipe, are counted as one ingredient. Uh, huh! Next time you make something calling for juice, just substitute zest and see what happens. Any real cook calls that two ingredients.

But I don't need an explanation. It's obvious that most of the time a dish cannot be made with only five ingredients. So we'll back out commonly used ones. And devise other was to reduce the count. Just so we can reach that magic number.

Elsewhere at FotW I have posted my recipe for Seafood Lollipops. This is one of the most complex recipes I make, and I don’t know of many less complicated ones. But the dish actually started as seafood sausages.

As such, it has 11 honest ingredients. And preparing the dish is the height of simplicity. Toss the main ingredients together. Run them through a meat grinder or food processor. Beat in eggs and cream. Spoon the puree onto squares of cling film. Wrap them to form logs. Drop into simmering water to poach.

It’s only when taking it to the next level that things get complicated. You have to use a disher or large spoon to drop the puree into simmering stock, and partially poach them. These balls then get cooled, sticks inserted, and dipped into a beer batter (which is made with five ingredients of its own, but which the five-ingredient folks would count as one), and deep fried.

The lollipops are served with a peach gastrique. Question: Is that one ingredient? Or do with count the component ingredients that go into it. Actually, if you’re a five-ingredient fix type, the “sauce” is a separate dish, made with five or fewer ingredients of its own.

My point here, obviously, is that we’ve used the same ingredients to make two different dishes. One on the simple side, the other rather complex. In neither case does the actual number of ingredients make a difference.

Don’t get me wrong. There’s nothing wrong with challenging yourself to use food in different, creative ways. To stretch your culinary skills and ambitions.

Artificially limiting the number of ingredients is just not how that’s accomplished.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AK1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 15:01
I agree!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 17:49
Originally posted by HistoricFoodie HistoricFoodie wrote:


On the Spam thread, for instance, Dan posted a Spam stir fry recipe. The height of simplicity. Yet, it has 8 stated ingredients, and I bet he left some out, like salt, pepper, soy sauce....


  Brook, please let me take ownership of my failure.  But let it be known to all of those out in yonder Spamland that I used no pepper, no soy (no way) and no additional salt.  I say additional salt because, as everyone knows, you use prepared rice for fried rice...and prepared rice is previously seasoned.

 



   In all seriousness.  I don't really care about the limitations of the 5 ingredients or the stipulations that both Tas and Brook had put on it.  I took this as a fun exercise to cook a dish with spam using as few ingredients as possible for the dish.  I submitted mine knowing I was over the ingredient list and thought it was still in the spirit of the exercise...if there was actually a winner to be announced I wouldn't have submitted my entry...and if I had submitted in error I would expect to be disqualified. 

   All in all...Brook, you know when we sometimes look too deeply into the inner workings of a cooking exercise.  Ummmm, Brook...I see your point (but just loosen the grip on this one) Ouch



   I DON'T LIKE SPAM!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 18:50
Love the picture!

Again, Dan, I wasn't faulting you. I was using your dish to demonstrate that even simple-to-prepare dishes can use a lot of ingredients.

On the other hand, using very few ingredients doesn't necessarily mean simple. A perfect French omelette is made with eggs, cream, salt and pepper. But it is far from being a simple dish.

While I personally don't care about simple for its own sake, I recognize that much of the population does. Which is fine. But let's give them realistic, practical targets. In that regard, Rachael Ray, for all her faults, has probably contributed more than any three other Food Network celebrities.

Wait. I take that back. We'd have to eliminate Mellisa D'Arabian from the "any three" group, because she, too, contributes to that concept; i.e., simple, easy to prepare meals that take little time. And, in her case, she does it at a realistically affordable level.

But maybe I should just jump on the bandwagon. Watch for my next book: How To Prepare A Three Course Meal For a Family of Four Using Only Three Ingredients, One Of Which Is Not Chicken.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 19:41
My dad doesn't like wild cards when playing poker, either; but then again, sometimes dealer's choice is simply dealer's choice. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Effigy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2013 at 23:04
So a spam sandwich would be....
5 ingredients in the bread (minimum), 
Flour, yeast, salt, sugar, water
If we will omit any spreads and slap the spam on the plain bread, there are seven ingredients in classic spam but three of those are also in bread - salt, sugar and water.
So nine right there...
Pork shoulder, ham, potato starch, sodium nitrite, salt, sugar, water, flour and yeast.

Life is never simpleConfused

Good topic Brook
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2013 at 00:15
Playing devil's advocate, Anne, the way it works is that component parts of a finished product do not count individually. 

Thus: Bread is only one ingredient. Spam is one. Etc. 

Frankly, I don't have any problem with that concept, although it can get dicey when you start talking about herb blends and the like. 

Where it really breaks down is when you create, from scratch, something that will become an ingredient. Is the beer batter I use on my Seafood Lollipops one ingredient or five? From my point of view, it's five---cuz I had to assemble and mix them to get the batter. The 5-ingredient proponents do one of two things. They either count it as only one ingredient, or they take the viewpoint that it's a separate item altogether, which can have it's own five ingredients (less, of course, the non-ingredients like salt, pepper, etc.). 

I have no argument with people who wish to "simplify" by using fewer ingredients. My problem is with those who play all sorts of games in order to force the count to come out. There's just no point to that at all. And it merely proves that the concept, itself, is flawed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Effigy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2013 at 00:23
Evil Smile Heart
You are so good with words.
So Beer Battered Spam is 2 ingredients? Wow - I have an idea nowLamp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote africanmeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 October 2013 at 01:31
spam cut in cubes fried with onion a dash of tabasco . and you pour over it 2 beaten eggs ,
now you got a great army breakfast .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Effigy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2013 at 03:03
Sorry I don't have time to actually test this - maybe when I get back...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hoser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 03:01
I'm loving this threadEvil Smile....so if beer batter is one ingredient, then I guess spaghetti sauce is too right? My better half loves spam in a red sauce over pasta...just three ingredients by my count.Wink

On the other hand, if I count the way I know I should....I can't even make fried eggs sunny side up without five ingredients.
eggs
butter
salt
pepper
1 Tbsp water

I let the eggs firm up, salt and pepper them, then add the water and cover so the whites firm up nicely.
Go ahead...play with your food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 07:10
Yeah, Dave. But, by the way they count, that's only two ingredients. The salt, pepper, and water don't count.

What I don't understand is, if none of these things are ingredients, how come my grocery bill is so high?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 07:48
But wasn't this thread intended to adhere to the stricter standard?  yet the participants in this stricter standard are falling into the same failings?

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 10:37
Obviously there's some confusion here. This thread was supposed to serve as a place to discuss the pros and cons of the whole five-ingredient concept.

Somehow it morfed into a further use of Spam; which was not the intent. In fact, just the opposite. I didn't want to further thread-jack Ron's challenge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 12:03
Some great ideas are being passed around here, but I think that the concept is being terribly over-thought. There may also be some confusion over the ideas of "ingredients" versus "components." Components implies primary characteristics of the things that go into a dish, and to me, such things as salt, pepper, etc. would be assumed and not necessarily "componetns" even though they are indeed "ingredients."
 
 
Truly, I am responsible for this, due to my underdeveloped concept; however, it never crossed my mind that the whole ting would be taken seriously. I mean, come on - Spam? LOL
 
Anyway, looking back, I'd still post the Spam "challenge," but I would mention 5 COMPONENTS rather than 5 INGREDIENTS. I'm sure this opens up a whole new can of worms, but it would be closer to my meaning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 13:56
Ron, I think the confusion all stems from the use of "five ingredients." You, obviously, have one thing in mind. And, perhaps, you are unaware of the trend of five ingredients or less? There have been several cookbooks, and at least two TV shows, dedicated to that concept.

The proponents of that trend all maintain that 1. the fewer the ingredients the simpler the dish, and 2. that five is the magic number for achieving that.

To consistently produce good tasting, interesting dishes, almost by definition requires more than five ingredients. So they decided that many of the commonly used ingredients wouldn't count against the total. And, when that alone doesn't work, they devise other methods of not counting ingredients.

Indirectly, this caters to the processed and convenience foods side of the continuum vs the from scratch school of cooking. Basically, they're saying that Sandra Lee is really on the right track.

How so? Let's look at your concept of "components" rather than ingredients.

Case study: Brook's Barbecued Ribs. Following the rules of the five-ingredient folks, I could, by using pre-made components, produce my ribs using just four ingredients: Ribs, mustard, commercial rub and commercial barbecue sauce.

However, I make my own rubs, mops, and sauces. My basic rib rub contains 12 ingredients (well, ten, cuz two of them are salt and black pepper). My Kentucky style sauce has six of its own.

So, when I make ribs am I using four ingredients? Or am I using 18? Oh, wait. I make my own mustard, which, in this case, is an additional 7 (6 the way they count) ingredients.

Because I make those things ahead, and always have them on hand, we could argue that they are components, which brings us back to the same four ingredients. But either way, preparation is exactly the same. In short, there has been no simplification. What there has been is a lowering of quality.

As I've stated before, simplicity or complexity is a matter of techniques used, not the number of ingredients or components. So far as I'm concerned, limiting the number of ingredients constrains good cooking, rather than freeing it.

So, again, my comments were not directed against your challenge, as such, nor against any entry in it. I just have strong, negative feelings about the five ingredient rubric.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 14:03
aye, brook - and in my mind, it was more about components than ingredients; for instance, commercial or home-made, i'd call a rub a rub, whether it had 3 or 13 ingredients. to me, it would be one component. same with sauce, etc.
 
i do remember the little dark-haired gal on the food network with the 5 ingredinets. she was a peach, to be sure, but the show held little interest to me because it was more about the rubric, as you said, then about the dish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 14:15
What I found interesting about it was that even the Food Network couldn't make an impact with it.

Maybe home cooks aren't as dumb as FN's executives think they are???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Effigy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 14:24
How about three?


although Hugh doesn't seem to know how to count either  Clown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2013 at 14:40
I don't know anything about Hugh or his book. But, just judging from the vid, my impression is he's not talking about limiting dishes to three ingredients. He just identifying natural pairings (triplings?) that might not occur to people.

There was, however, an attempt to take the concept to the next lower level and use three ingredients as the magic number. Even the five-ingredient folks had trouble with that one. You can imagine how long the list of "don't count" ingredients would have to be to make that work. I know that one book had been published, but it went right on the remaindered tables cuz nobody was buying it.
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