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Babylonian Bread

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HistoricFoodie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2013 at 10:20
Yeah, Ron, I think it would make a perfect group project, fitting it with your goals for the site.
 
Interestingly, this one isn't all that difficult. Although there's a week elapsed time between starting and baking, the fact is there isn't all that much actual hands-on work. It's mostly wait time. For instance, it probably takes no more than 10 minutes to mix the mash ingredients. After that it's a matter of waiting 48 hours, giving the mash a stir now and then, before going on to the next step.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2013 at 12:22
    Hi Brook, and all!

  Busy day at work so far.   I would certainly be interested in participating, thanks for the offer Brook (just let me know what ya need in a pm). 

  I think the project really looks great...the bread was good to begin with, but I think the mash is going to bring it to another level.

   Awesome work guys!
Enjoy The Food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote africanmeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2013 at 04:20
Sorry guys that i jump in so late but i did a small research in Hebrew and on the Iraqi  Jews website
and found two Interesting info .
1 the made  bread like we do today flat bread . with water and flour and Something they call Wild Yeast .and they  do it in a tabun .



or like that 



2 they also used flour from millet and water .
the Millet was mentioned in the Bible book of Ezekiel chapter 4 verse 9 grain bread. Said that millet was included among the plants enchanting Hanging Gardens of Babylon, one of the seven wonder. the indian (from india ) are making a bread called roti till today.
 
this is a very Interesting Topic 

Ahron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2013 at 05:25
Ahron, thank you so much for doing that additional research. And you're not late; the party is just getting started! 
 
Your research demonstrates what we knew intuitively: that there wasn't just one way of making bread. And that traditional methods, although modified through the ages, can provide clues to the past.
 
Interestingly, Alford and Duguid report that the Bedouin still use a "saji"---a convex metal plate placed over a fire---to make Fatir, one of their traditional breads. From it's description, thats what the woman in the video is making; or an Iraqi version of it.  Leba, the other traditional Bedouin bread, is baked in the coals of an open fire.
 
Unfortunately, their recipe for Bedouin Barley Bread is modernized, and uses both wheat flour and active dry yeast, as well as barley, to create the dough.
 
Seems to me that any nomadic people with a bread tradition would, of necessity, have to "bake" it without an oven.
 
Among the Berbers of North Africa, bread was made either by burying the dough in the hot sands near a fire, or "baked" on a griddle over the fire.
 
The Roti you referred to is cooked on a flat griddle, rather than a convex one. But, as you point out, it's a similar (albiet smaller) bread. In his book Molto Gusto, Batali instructs how to make pizza the same way.
 
One of my big regrets is not learning about traditional bread making when we visited with the Sami in Norway & Sweden. I had no interest in bread making at that time.
 
Wild yeast is naturally occuring yeast. It's found, literally, everywhere. The whole trick to both brewing and baking, before the days of commercial yeast, was to capture and grow those wild yeasts in a controlled manner.
 
In modern times, wild yeast is the basis of sourdough bread. But, because every region has different yeast varieties, a recipe for, say, San Francisco Sourdough, made exactly the same way in, say, J-burg, will taste differently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote africanmeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2013 at 10:06
Hi Brook 
you are 100% right . the Bedouin the Druze and most of the arabic  Nomadic tribes used this method  . 
but the one that turn to be Farmers start using the ovens .








i will try to do this flat bread on the weekend

Ahron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2013 at 10:19

Ahron,

Thanks so much for providing these videos ... Certainly, very informative and visually educational on topic.
 
Have lovely wkend.
Marge.
 
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2013 at 12:44
   Wow, all the information coming in from different sources around the globe on this project is amazing.  Taz, this collaboration is on you my friend!  Foods of the World

  Ahron, great info!  Thanks for sharing!
Enjoy The Food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2013 at 13:51
Wow, how cool! I missed a few days, this is an awesome thread!
So much to learn!
Mark R
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 06:34
I found it particularly interesting that in the second video the woman finished shaping the flatbread by laying the dough on a pillow-like form and stretching the dough to fit. Result, all the breads are the same size.
 
The pillow also seems to make it easier to center the bread on the saji.
 
Once we finish the Mesopotamian barley-bread project (or, rather, as a continuation of it), I'm going to try this technique. I'm thinking I can invert my wok on an open fire.
 
The pure barley dough doesn't have enough stretch to be cooked this way. One open quesiton is when did they start using wheat flour in the fertile crescent? There's about a 300 year gap between the earliest records we have of Mesopotamian bread and the time the Egyptions domesticated wheat. What we don't know is how soon after that wheat raising spread to other areas.
 
I would suspect fairly quickly, as the caravans would have spread the word. Just guessing, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that by 800 BCE, everybody in the ancient world was using wheat, either partly or wholely, in their breads.
 
So, here's my tentative game plan.
 
1. Make a 100% barley bread using the mash-starter method.
2. Experiment with a make-shift saji, using wheat flour to learn the technique.
4. Make flatbreads on the "saji" using a mixture of barley and wheat flour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote africanmeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 07:19
It looks so easy but it's not .
i started with flour (stone ground flour), water and yeast . made a soft dough i let it rise for an hour







made pall size of tennis ball and let it rest .





made  a fire in the Weber put the wok upside down 
and you can see the rest.















Got batterer with the practice 




i had to put it to the test





Ahron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 07:40
Ahron;
 
You are extraordinairely innovative and quite a talented flat bread maker too !
 
Looks wonderful ...
 
Lovely pictorial and thanks so much for your showing us your feature ...
 
Kind regards.
Margi.
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 08:19
I know what you mean, Ahron.
 
One of the reasons we don't have "classic" pizza in my house is my total inability to keep the dough round as it gets stretched. So when I do make it our pizza's are amorphous at best.
 
Come to think of it, that's true about many flatbreads I make. I jokingly call them "amoeba bread."
 
Both from the videos and your pix I'm thinking the bread stays on the bowl only a few seconds on each side?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 09:12
Originally posted by HistoricFoodie HistoricFoodie wrote:

I know what you mean, Ahron.
 

 
Come to think of it, that's true about many flatbreads I make. I jokingly call them "amoeba bread."
 




  I'm happy to know there is a formal name for the shape I have made for my flatbreads and pizza dough as well. 
Enjoy The Food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 09:44
Good job Ahron! Great ideas. Well done. I like all kinds of flat breads. 
Hungry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 11:39
I'm happy to know there is a formal name for the shape I have made for my flatbreads and pizza dough as well. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2013 at 16:23
Ron and Dan: The diastatic barley powder arrived today. I'll package up your samples and send them out on Monday.
 
Once you have them, we'll each get to work on the mash-seed culture-mother process, comparing notes along the way. 
 
Later: OK, they're all ready to go. I put 5 tablespoons in each package. That way you'll have more than enough for this project and any other experimenting you may do with other breads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2013 at 12:28
    Thanks a bunch, Brook.  I really can't wait to learn from this entire process...this is something I have never done before.
Enjoy The Food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 06:51
   I recieved mine today, thanks Brook!

   I will await instructions...this will be a whole new venture for me...I can't wait to learn the experience.

  Smile,
Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 06:56
Glad to hear it arrived, Dan. Soon as Ron receives his I'll start posting the instructions and we can get going.

This is going to be a fun project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 08:04
G'morning, gentlemen -
 
I apologise as i was a little remiss; I actually received the goodies yesterday, but it was a busy one ~ Ouch
 
I'm assuming we want to be fairly synchronised with this project - when would be a good time to begin? Saturday might work best for me, depending on how involved the beginning of the process is.
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