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Babylonian Bread

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HistoricFoodie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 11:51
Not very involved, in terms of hands-on. Most of it is wait time, with an occasional stirring, for 48 hours.

What I'm thinking is I'll post the first part on Saturday, if that's good for Dan. Each of us will make the mash and post what we experienced. Then, we can move on to the next part---which can take up to six days. Again, mostly wait time.

How's that sound?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 11:53
Sounds good to me ~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2013 at 12:41
  Sounds good to me, although I may be delayed until starting on it Sunday...I'm working Saturday.  But it sounds like being delayed won't be a problem.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2013 at 05:39
I don't think it will make much of a matter, Dan.

From the instructions there's likely to be a difference in total time anyway, due to environmental factors. I also think our experiences making the mashes and seed cultures are going to be pretty much the same.

Once we get to the point of using them to actually make bread, differences in approach and materials handling will likely show up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2013 at 14:48
OK, what I'm going to do is post the info on each stage ahead of time, so you guys can absorb what has to be done. I'll start with the mash, go on to the seed culture a few days from now, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2013 at 14:50
Bread Making With Mashes (Scalds)

While it’s difficult to know exactly how ancient Mesopotamians handled their bread-making procedures, we do know they would have started with a mash of fermented grain.

So, taking us one step closer to a true Babylonian Bread, we’ll start with a mash, and use it to create the final bread.
This is a complex, multi-day procedure. The mash, itself, just requires strict attention to time and temperature. You then use the mash to create what’s called a “seed culture,” which can take as much as 6 days. This, in turn, is used to create a Mother Starter. The Mother, just as with modern sourdough, is used to make the actual bread. Timing and temperature controls are essential to this whole process.
Most modern bakers, when creating a non-wheat starter, use rye flour. But literally any grain will work. I suspect that other, non-grain, flours, such as garbanzo, buckwheat, and peanut, would bring us to the same end.

For best results, spring or filtered water should be used for best results. Because of the additives in tap water, using it can lead to inconsistent results.

All text and instructions are condensed from Peter Reinhart’s Whole Grain Breads. [Whole Grain Breads, Peter Reinhart, Ten Speed Press, Berkeley, CA, 2007]. My comments, as necessary, are interspersed.
As we’ve never done this before, the game plan is to post our day-by-day activity and observations, and we’ll learn the how-to together. But first some background.

“Historically, grain mashes were used for both baking and brewing as a medium for growing yeast and also for extracting flavor from the grain. When starches are gelatinized by scalding they are much more welcoming to enzymes…… The problem with scalding the grains, from the bread making perspective, is that most enzymes cannot survive temperatures in excess of 170F, and some enzymes become denatured at even cooler temperatures.

“To grow yeast in the mash, whether for bread or beer, barm (a foamy, yeasty froth atop fermenting malt liquor) was sometimes added to new batches of mash, along with diastatic malt. Before long, an entire new batch of barm would form, teeming with large quantities of yeast.”
[Comment: Adding some old bread, to kick-start yeast production, likely serves the same function, and pre-dates the use of barm. From my understanding at this point, however, neither is essential for the process to work.]

“(In) the mash technique used here the water will not be heated above 165F, and the mash will be the consistency of gravy, not thick like bread dough.

“Breads made using this mash have a denser crumb, but they also have a flavor and texture unlike any other: sweeter, moister, and creamier.”
[Comment: the use of either diastatic malt powder or sprouted wheat flour, while not essential to this process, helps promote the maximum conversion of starches to sugar. Both are available from King Arthur, as well as other sources. Because diastatic malt is often used in other breads, my recommendation is that it makes more sense to order it rather than the flour.]

“If you are using grains other than whole wheat or rye flour [which obviously applies to our barley bread], and especially if you are using whole, coarsely-milled grains, it is especially important to measure by weight, not volume. The needed volume can vary substantially depending on the grains used and how coarsely they are milled.

“(In the following recipe) the first hour in the oven is critical, as most of the starch conversion takes place then. The second and third hours can be done either in the oven or at room temperature. The starch-to-sugar conversion will be complete at the end of the third hour. Taste the mash at the beginning and the end to experience the difference.”

[Comment: Based on Reinhart’s note on other grains, I am giving ingredients in terms of weight only.]
Mash
300 grams (10.6 oz) water at 165F
128 grams (4.5 oz) barley flour
2 grams (.07 oz) diastatic malt powder or sprouted wheat flour (optional)

Preheat the oven to 200F.

Heat the water to 165F in an ovenproof saucepan, then remove the pan from the heat and whisk or stir in the flour (or other grain) and malt until the flour is fully hydrated and makes a paste similar to a thin pudding or gravy. Using a spatula or plastic pastry scraper dipped in water, scrape the spoon or whisk and the walls of the pan to get all of the dough back into the pan and off the inside walls. The mash temperature will drop to about 150F during the stirring. Immediately cover the pan and place it in the oven.

Turn the oven down to warm/150F, if it has this setting, and leave the mash in the oven for at least 1 hour (it can stay in the oven for up to 3 hours). If the oven can’t be turned down this low, turn the oven off and 10 minutes later turn it back on to the lowest setting (typically 200F) for about 10 minutes; continue alternating between on and off at 10 minute intervals for the first hour, then turn the oven off and leave it off. If possible, leave the mash in the warm oven for the full 3 hours. However, you can also remove it from the oven after the first hour and leave it at room temperature, covered, if you need to use the oven for other purposes.

After 3 hours, refrigerate the mash until you are ready to use it. You can also leave it out overnight at room temperature if you plan to use it within 24 hours. The mash can also be stored in a sealed container in the freezer for up to 3 months. Whether frozen or refrigerated, remove the mash far enough in advance to bring it back to room temperature---a few hours if refrigerated, and overnight or about 12 hours if frozen.

The final weight of the mash will be less than the total weight of the ingredients due to evaporation. It will weigh approximately 14 ounces when finished.

[Comment: You’ll only need two ounces of mash to make the seed culture, so freezing the balance makes sense]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2013 at 16:07
Awesome work guy's, I may pick up some barley tomorrow and follow along!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2013 at 16:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2013 at 20:22
I hope you do, Mark. The more of us involved playing with this the more likely any nuances will be uncovered. And between us we'll find out who shaved the barber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2013 at 05:28
Originally posted by HistoricFoodie HistoricFoodie wrote:

And between us we'll find out who shaved the barber.

But will we tell?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2013 at 10:56
I certainly hope so. Else what's the point.

Do you want me to send you some diastatic malt powder? If so, send my your mail address as a PM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2013 at 09:31
OK, it's time to get started. I can't speak for the others, but I'll track my progress in the form of a diary; hopefully making day-to-day entries.

Sunday, 9:00 AM: Mixed mash ingredients. My scale will not weigh less than 5 grams, so used 1 teaspoon of diastatic malt powder, which is Reinhart’s alternative measurement.
     Reinhart describes mixture as resembling a thin pudding or gravy. Mine is thicker than that, more resembling cooked oatmeal.
     Popped mash in oven and alternated on/off at 200F for first hour. At the end of this time mash was actually softer and more hydrated. Returned to cooling oven for two hours.
     At the end of two hours the mash consistency was soft and pasty, but not loose. Sort of the same texture as a choux paste before the eggs are added.
     Because I’ll be starting on the seed culture tomorrow, I’ll let the paste rest overnight at room temperature.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2013 at 10:48
   I look forward to reading your entries, Brook.  I will do mine tomorrow.  Is it okay to put my entries in this thread as well, or would you rather a separate thread?

  Just let me know...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 March 2013 at 10:52
No, not a new thread, Dan. I think it makes more sense to keep our observations and comments all in one place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 05:53
Once the mash is ready we proceed to the next stage, making a seed culture. This is the most time consuming part of the process, taking as much as six days. But that’s almost all wait time. Actual hands-on work time is maybe 15 minutes.

A seed culture is an intermediate step that provides a growth organism for the wild yeasts captured in the mash. It’s quite likely that the Mesopotamians went directly from the mash to creating a dough. A piece of that dough was saved to act as a starter for the next day’s baking.

Could we do the same? Absolutely. Going through the entire process, however, produces a stronger, more consistently behaving mother starter. I figure, if we’re going to all this trouble, we may as well have that as our goal.

Keep in mind, too, that as much a PITA as this is, it’s a one-time procedure. After that, by properly feeding the mother starter, we can keep it going forever, using it the way they used yesterday’s dough in Babylon.

So, let’s make a seed culture:

Phase 1 (Day 1)

28.5 grams (1 oz) mash
28.5 grams (1 oz) barley flour
56.5 grams (2 oz) water at room temperature
1 gram (.03 oz) diastatic malt powder or sprouted wheat flour (optional)

In a small bowl, stir together all of the ingredients with a spoon or whisk to make a paste like pancake batter or a thin sponge. Be sure all of the flour is hydrated. You can leave it in the bowl or transfer it to a 2-cup measuring cup. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and leave at room temperature for approximately 48 hours. Two or three times a day, aerate by stirring for with minute with a wet spoon or whisk (the dough won’t stick as easily to a wet tool). There will be little or no sign of fermentation activity during the first 24 hours; bubbles may begin to appear during the second 24 hours. Regardless, proceed to Phase 2.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 05:57
Monday, 8:30 AM: Mash has a very slight yeasty aroma, but no visual signs of yeast activity.

Mixed the ingredients according to instructions. This produced a pancake-like batter with no effort at all. The mash just melted in. Will stir from time to time over the next two days, noting any changes.

Monday, 8:40 AM:Set aside one ounce of mash for Phase 2. Transferred balance to freezer.

Monday, 1:30 PM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency.

Monday, 6:30 PM: Stirred mixture. There already is some sign of yeast activity. Not much, but a few small bubbles. I suspect that leaving the mash out overnight gave the wild yeast a chance to settle in.

Tuesday, 12:30 AM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency.

Tuesday, 8:00 AM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency.

Tuesday, 4:00PM: Stirred mixture. Bubbling has ceased.

Tuesday, 10:30 PM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 09:57
Originally posted by HistoricFoodie HistoricFoodie wrote:

OK, it's time to get started. I can't speak for the others, but I'll track my progress in the form of a diary; hopefully making day-to-day entries.

Sunday, 9:00 AM: Mixed mash ingredients. My scale will not weigh less than 5 grams, so used 1 teaspoon of diastatic malt powder, which is Reinhart’s alternative measurement.
     Reinhart describes mixture as resembling a thin pudding or gravy. Mine is thicker than that, more resembling cooked oatmeal.
     Popped mash in oven and alternated on/off at 200F for first hour. At the end of this time mash was actually softer and more hydrated. Returned to cooling oven for two hours.
     At the end of two hours the mash consistency was soft and pasty, but not loose. Sort of the same texture as a choux paste before the eggs are added.
     Because I’ll be starting on the seed culture tomorrow, I’ll let the paste rest overnight at room temperature.





   Okay Brook...here I go>>>>

   When mixing the barely and malt together, I ran into the same problem with weighing the 2g of malt.  I had one smaller portable scale I could use that measures grains, grams, etc.  I found that a level 1/2 teaspoon was exactly 2g.

   My mixture also resembled a thick cooked oatmeal, rather than a thin pudding or gravy.  After some thought I ended up adding some more water to reach the desired consistency, of the thin pudding or gravy.  I ended up adding 1/4cup additional water to achieve this.

   It is in the oven, I will update within this post when I have finished it in the oven.


  Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 10:01
Looks like you guys are off to a good start. I'll be a bit delayed, but will definitely be starting up soon!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 11:00
I've done some mashing and fermenting in the past. I still have Alpa-amylase and Gluco-amylase enzymes stored in the fridge, and 50# of home malted rye squirreled away.

I don't think you guys have to worry too much about having too much malted barley powder, as long as you have enough. Brooks efforts in the oven showed the resultant action of the enzymes well when he commented on the thinner consistency after the mash was in the oven for a while. The starches made it thick originally and the enzymes working on the starches then made it thinner. This process is breaking down the starches into more easily digestible sugars for the yet to be introduced yeast.

I've seen these enzymes turn a big pot of sticky oatmeal into a thin and runny liquid very quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 11:42
Originally posted by Rod Franklin Rod Franklin wrote:

I've done some mashing and fermenting in the past. I still have Alpa-amylase and Gluco-amylase enzymes stored in the fridge, and 50# of home malted rye squirreled away.

I don't think you guys have to worry too much about having too much malted barley powder, as long as you have enough. Brooks efforts in the oven showed the resultant action of the enzymes well when he commented on the thinner consistency after the mash was in the oven for a while. The starches made it thick originally and the enzymes working on the starches then made it thinner. This process is breaking down the starches into more easily digestible sugars for the yet to be introduced yeast.

I've seen these enzymes turn a big pot of sticky oatmeal into a thin and runny liquid very quickly.


   Thanks for sharing your wisdom, Rod!

  This is all new to me...so I really appreciate the advice.
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