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Babylonian Bread

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HistoricFoodie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 11:45
+1 on Dan's comments, Rod.

Other than making a sourdough starter I've never done this sort of thing before. And the one thing I am not is a chemist.

So it's good to know that what we're seeing so far is normal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 12:12
You guys are on track. I think when the quoted author mentions "thickness of gravy" he was talking about the consistency after the enzymes have done their job.

I'm not a chemist either.

Wait till you see that yeast go to town in your mash. They'll love it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 16:18
You may be right, Rod. Wasn't quite that thin, but pudding-like comes close.

And see my new note. There already is, surprisingly, some yeast activity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 March 2013 at 17:35
I have my fingers crossed that you have yeast growing in there. I've never tried to culture wild yeast, but from my understanding it can be a hit or miss kind of thing. Especially if you're hoping it just floats in on a dust particle from who knows where.

I'm thinking even those old timers used known sources of good bugs, either from previous batches or borrowed from someone else.

You guys are really starting from the beginning though, but I'm not saying that it's not happening for you, because yeast is a very common thing and it just might be.

Inoculating from a natural source of yeasts might be a thought though. Like from grape skins or other berries. Some trees and some leaves have yeast on them too. It's a whitish, powdery like substance on them. I know you've seen it on grapes. It's that white powdery stuff you can wipe off with your finger. If you get a true wild culture of good yeast going, treat it kindly, 'cause you got something special going on.

I remember a long time ago, watching TV and eating grapes. I was just picking them off the stems without really looking and BAM! I get one that tastes just like vinegar! I didn't care then, but I wish I would have spit that thing out and tried to culture it. Never tasted one like it before or since.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 05:01
Time will tell, Rod.

Reinhart's system does not call for adding yeast. It's just a different way of creating a sourdough Mother, using a grain other than wheat. And is the closest we can determine to how it might have been done in the Fertile Crescent.

Certainly, once thngs got going they would have used a piece of yesterday's dough to make today's dough. But there had to be a first cause somewhere along the way.

That, I belive, is what we're trying for.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 07:31

Keep us posted on what you see in the fermenting mash. I'm pretty sure that initial gassing you're seeing isn't from yeast, but from a common and harmless bacteria. If all of a sudden the gassing stops within a day or so, you'll know that was the case. The same bugs are in operation in your experiment that would be present in any vegetable ferment, so you can expect it to begin to sour soon after. The question: Will a viable colony of wild yeast inhabit and thrive along side of the bacteria making it sour? That's what we're all hoping for. Indeed, time will tell.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 08:02
Originally posted by HistoricFoodie HistoricFoodie wrote:

You may be right, Rod. Wasn't quite that thin, but pudding-like comes close.

And see my new note. There already is, surprisingly, some yeast activity.



   Cool Brook!

    I noticed the same thing.  Even though I thinned mine out just a little bit it ended up pudding like.  Hopefully I have the same luck as you with yeast activity (I have confidence).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 13:28
You're probably right again, Rod, as the bubbling activity has stopped.

I have confidence that this is going to work. If not, I'll start over, adding just a pinch of commercial yeast to get the seed culture going.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 14:14
It's not over yet! You make bread all the time right? If so, your kitchen probably has a higher than average population of yeast lying and floating around. If that's the case then you might just get that colony of yeast we're all hoping for, but it probably won't be a "wild" type, as in something you might wipe off the bark of a poplar tree out in the middle of the woods somewhere. It will likely be a mutated, sort of mongrel regression of all the commercial yeasts that have inhabited your place over the years. The good thing is it will be derived from pedigreed varieties of yeast that were originally bred for baking. It's not over yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2013 at 18:24
Tomorrow morning starts phase two. This is almost a repeat of phase one, with less water (the phase one mix makes up for that), and without the diastatic malt.

Phase 2 (Day 3)

28.5 grams (1 oz) mash
28.5 grams (1 oz) barley flour
28.5 grams (1 oz) water at room temperature
All of Phase 1 sponge

Add the new ingredients to the Phase 1 sponge and mix with a spoon or whisk to distribute and fully hydrate the new flour. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and leave at room temperature for 24 to 48 hours. Stir with a wet spoon or whisk to aerate two or three times each day, as before. There should be signs of fermentation (bubbling and growth) during this period. When the dough becomes very bubbly or foamy or at the end of 48 hours, whichever comes first, move on the Phase 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2013 at 04:12
Wednesday, 7:30 AM: Mixed phase 2 ingredients. Checked phase one sponge first. There was no change in appearance or consistency, and it smelled clean, with no hint of either yeastiness or sour.

Wednesday, 2:00 PM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency.

Wednesday, 10:00 PM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency.

Thursday, 7:00 AM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency.

Thursday, 1:00 PM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency.

Thursday, 9:00 PM: Stirred mixture. No change in appearance or consistency. I'm getting a little concerned, as, according to Reinhart's commentary I should be seeing yeast activity by now. Tomorrow morning will tell the tale.

Friday, 8:00 AM: Still no activity at all, and time to go to phase 3. I'm going to add a bit of yeast to kick start the process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2013 at 04:36
Originally posted by HistoricFoodie HistoricFoodie wrote:

Wednesday, 7:30 AM: Mixed phase 2 ingredients. Checked phase one sponge first. There was no change in appearance or consistency, and it smelled clean, with no hint of either yeastiness or sour.


   Uh oh.  Maybe this will be part 1 of 2 Ouch

   This really is some neat stuff though, Brook! 

   Okay, I'll be starting part 2 today, I'm bringing it up to room temperature now.

Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2013 at 12:00
Phase One

Wednesday
  • 1400 phase one begun - set aside 
  • 1600 stirred with no action started
  • 1830 stirred with no action started

Thursday

  • 0800 stirred with some bubble action
  • 1600 stirred with no action
  • 2100 stirred with no action (there is a sour smell)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2013 at 04:44
Just a side note: I was able to find date molasses in a Mideastern grocery, yesterday. It looks like a thin sorghum.

Tasting it I found it to by not as cloyingly sweet as sorghum or honey, with a distinct flavor of dates.

This is what I'll use when we get to the bread-baking point with this project.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote africanmeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 March 2013 at 06:51
I am still here .
you are doing a great job guys.
thanks.
Ahron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2013 at 05:01

Phase 3 (Day 4 or 5)

42.5 grams (1.5 oz) barley flour
28.5 grams (1 oz) water
Half Phase 2 sponge

Discard or give away half of the Phase 2 sponge. Add the new ingredients to the other half and mix as before. The sponge will be thicker as we reduce the percentage of water, but it will still be wet, spongy, and sticky. Cover loosely with plastic wrap0 and leave at room temperature for 24 to 48 hours, stirring with a wet spoon or whisk to aerate at least twice each day, as on the previous days. Within 48 hours, and probably sooner, it should be very bubbly and expanded. If not, wait another day or two, aerating as before, until it becomes active. (If the sponge was active and bubbly prior to this phase, it could become active ad bubbly in less than 24 hours. If so, proceed to the next phase).

Friday, 8:00 AM: Followed instructions for this phase. Being as there was, literally, no activity I added a pinch of instant yeast to the mix to kick start the process.

Friday, 1:30 PM: Stirred mixture. Yeast activity is starting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2013 at 06:45

Friday - Start of Phase Two

  • 0600 lots of bubble action, stirred
  • 0600 followed phase two instructions

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2013 at 07:48
Looks good, Dan.

Mine never reached that stage of activity. Just a few bubbles that soon stopped, as Rod suggested it might.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2013 at 08:15
Originally posted by HistoricFoodie HistoricFoodie wrote:

Looks good, Dan.

Mine never reached that stage of activity. Just a few bubbles that soon stopped, as Rod suggested it might.


   Up until the scheduled start of Phase Two, mine was acting the same as yours.  I had a few bubbles at one point, but then it stopped...completely.  But I still had a definite sour smell.   Then this morning I woke up to get ready for work, and set aside a little time to start Phase Two.  So I looked in the container and the bubbles were quite active, or should I say the yeast.  I can't wait to try some bread with this stuff!


Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 March 2013 at 08:58
That's one reason I'm so glad several of us are trying this, Dan. Obviously, different environmental factors come into play to determine the success of this process.
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