Foods of the World Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Other Food-Related Topics > The Library
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Chefs Gordon Ramsay & Jamie Oliver
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

This site is completely supported by donations; there are no corporate sponsors. We would be honoured if you would consider a small donation, to be used exclusively for forum expenses.



Thank you, from the Foods of the World Forums!

Chefs Gordon Ramsay & Jamie Oliver

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Chefs Gordon Ramsay & Jamie Oliver
    Posted: 01 April 2012 at 10:24
Are there any members who are familiar with these two UK native Chefs ? They are quite popular on the circuit, with reference to their new cookbooks ?
 
Has anyone bought Jamie Oliver´s Italy, Spain, Greece and Morocco new cookbook ? and / or 365 Day Menus by Gordon Ramsey´s ?
 
Would love to hear your commentary.
 
Thanks and Happy Holidays.
Margi.
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Daikon View Drop Down
Chef's Apprentice
Chef's Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: 20 October 2011
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2012 at 14:27
I must confess that I have never directly experienced the food of either of these chefs, nor have I explored any of their cookbooks or recipes.  While conceding that one doesn't earn Michelin stars by putting up bad food, I've found both chef's shtick, showmanship, public posturing, whatever-you-want-to-call-it so off-putting that I haven't had any desire to try to separate their food from their public personas.  Simply put, I am neither a fan of food as medicine and driver of a moral crusade, nor of screaming at and belittling kitchen subordinates as a means and motivation to the production of admirable chefs and food. 
Back to Top
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 03:26
 
Monday 11am - Gargano Peninsula, Italia
 
Good Morning Daikon,
 
Firstly, thank you for your feedback.
 
To kick off, I believe that Ramsey and Oliver are totally different from one another though I have never interviewed either of these two UK native chefs. ( I am a journalist living and working in the Mediterranean since 1992 ).
 
From what I have seen on T.V., Ramsey is quite brilliant, a mania of perfectionism to say the least and however, his latest book is awesome ...
 
Though, I do agree with you, that he does exhibit an unyielding, harsh, rough to the senses, rigorous and severe hard nosed traits ...
 
Though, how much of this is a script for showmanship and his crusading, and how much is actually him as he is a father of four and seems quite settled in Scotland ( he is Scottish ), we do not know on personally ... in other words, A T.V. VILLIAN ? ... I only know one native Sicilian Chef, Gaetano Billeggio who had done an internship under Ramsey in London ... He told me in an interview in Palermo in 2011 ... the question: Mentors and Coaches ... My think tank, cannot remember which  restaurant of Ramsey´s it was, however, I could look in a back issue of magazine, and find the article.
 
I believe only what I see ... T.V. is quite a game !   
 
On one of his T.V. programmes aired in Madrid Capital, Spain, Ramsey globe trots to restaurants worldwide and performs a renovation, re-engineering, re-mentoring and remodelling of every section of a restaurant, the carte, the kitchen training and decor to make a failing business, profitable in these hard times.
 
For this, he is admirable. HOWEVER, as you have pointed out; SCREAMING AND YELLING AT EMPLOYEES ( SUBORDINATES ) OR HAZING, MIGHT BE A BETTER WORD, this is UNACCEPTABLE in my book ! I do not believe in yelling at anybody solves issues and problems. I am a solution finder ...
 
Jamie Oliver, on the other hand, has a truly wonderful book on the cuisines of Greece, Italy, Spain and Morocco ... I have never seen him on T.V. nor have interviewed him for my magazine, so I cannot be objective ... I happen to like this particular book very much ... Good simple take on Mediterranean cuisines ... He has a Mentor, Coach who is from Italy ( forget his name off top of think tank at moment ) who has worked with him very very closely over the years too ...
I believe they may own a trattoria together as well in London.
 
Thanks for your feedback.
Margi. Cintrano.
 
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25 January 2010
Location: Chinook, MT
Status: Offline
Points: 9389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 09:22
regarding the two chefs, i've only seen them on TV and haven't read any of their books. from what i've seen there is quite a difference in the persona of each BEFORE they "got famous" in american TV, versus AFTER. my comments apply to what i've seen of them during the earlier stages, as i believe that the 'necessities" of modern media have pushed them into sensationalism, which is unfortunate.
 
regarding his older shows, which took place in european restaurants in england, spain and france, i like ramsey's concept of a simple, stripped-down menu for a restaurant that focuses on fresh, local ingredients, both as a cost-cutting measure and also as a way to highlight what the locale has to offer. i also like oliver's natural, healthy approach in his earlier shows, and his humble persona.
 
having said that, since both of them have hit the big time, i find the drama and sensationalism to be too much. i'd probably enjoy both of their earlier books, and might check them out sometime, but have no real use for the more current stuff.
If you are a visitor and like what you see, please click here and join the discussions in our community!
Back to Top
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 10:06
@ Ron,
 
Thanks for ur feedback Ron.
 
As I mentioned in my reply to Daikon, fame can be a ruination ... I have found this to be true with many celebrity chefs or star chefs ... However, much of what you read or see on t.v., is hype and false too ...
 
However, I have also met numerous humble chefs who are wonderful mentors, and coaches too --- who are still polite, kind, innovative and have not allowed fame to take over their personas and alter their personalities ... Girona, Catalonia´s Chef Joan Roca for example, is certainly one of the most lovely gents I have ever interviewed and come to know well over the years, as well as Chef Karlos Arguiñano from the Basque Country. Lovely gents ... Paco Roncero, Joqauin Felipe, Alberto Chicote and Angel León are also very lovely people.  Heston Blumenthal from Bray, U.K.  is another very humble fellow.
  
To add a point, on screaming in the Kitchen ... Many bosses are under tremendous stress, whether they are corporate executives, Chefs or Military Officers ... However, yelling and hazing employees is a horror ... and not a solution to core problems ...
 
Do you have a favourite well known Chef ? What is your view on Grant Achatz,  Mario Batali and José Andres ?  
 
1) Grant: I admire his brave recovery and he certainly deserved the awards he received. He is greatly admired as well by: Ferrán Adriá ...
 
2) Mario: His Bolognese Ragù is the same as my Grandmom´s except for a lack of product during the depression in NYC´s Little Italy ... thus, she added uncased sausage to the Ragù ...
He and Gwenyth were staying at the same La Rioja Alavesa Hotel, as I was in February 2008. They were filming a programme called ON THE ROAD AGAIN ... I was interviewing the chef, Francis Paniego who also owns a wonderful restaurant called EL PORTAL in Ezcaray, La Rioja ...
3) José :  his God father Bob, is a dear friend of many years to my Publisher and he is from NYC.
 
Would like more feedback on chefs around the USA who are well known ...
 
Kind regards.
Margi.
 
 
 
 
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25 January 2010
Location: Chinook, MT
Status: Offline
Points: 9389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 10:13
the only chefs i am "familiar" with are the more well-known ones from the food network and bravo channels on TV, but batali is a man whom i would love to meet - also rick bayless. both of these men seem to be very knowedgeable as well as "down to earth." morimoto of "iron chef" fame would also be a chef worth meeting, but he is so far out of my league it would be like a monkey (me) trying to converse with a greek god (him).
 
above all, the one i would love to spend time with is......
 
giada! Heart
 
If you are a visitor and like what you see, please click here and join the discussions in our community!
Back to Top
Daikon View Drop Down
Chef's Apprentice
Chef's Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: 20 October 2011
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 11:00
I haven't yet had the chance to try any of his food, but I love José Andrés!  He's just so much fun to listen to, and gives every impression that you'd have no choice other than to have a wonderful time if you met him in person.

Incidentally, that Andrés video is part of an excellent Harvard course on Science and Cooking that is available online -- two years of videos!
Back to Top
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 11:26
@ Ron,
 
Firstly, we can certainly see why any gent, would enjoy culinary school with this lovely lady !!!
 
Evil Smile
All my best ...
Margi.
 
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 11:29
@ Ron,
 
BATALI: he has a 24 hour appetite ... loves to chow down ... he is real serious about food and wine as most Italians are ( I am 50% Italian ) ... He enjoys the discussing of each plate, each ingredient, each aroma, each course, each method, each wine pairing and pairing for each dish ... He is quite knowledgeable about regional Italian ...
 
If you were to ask me about his character, he is Serious Foodie to say least, however, much more, he feels, tastes, emotionalises and breathes, Exemplary Italian cuisines !
 
Very social as well ...
 
Kindest.
Margi.
 
 
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25 January 2010
Location: Chinook, MT
Status: Offline
Points: 9389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 11:39
regardng batali - his example sounds very much like one i would like to emulate. as i get more knowledgeable about italian food, the more i really find it to be emotional, moreso than most other cuisines.
 
regarding giada ~ what can i say, except
If you are a visitor and like what you see, please click here and join the discussions in our community!
Back to Top
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 11:41
@ Daikon,
 
Thanks for your reply ... Yes, JOSÉ ANDRÉS is quite a unique gent ... Firstly, he studied under Ferrán Adriá before going to the USA. He hails from a real humble family in NW Spain, Asturias.
His dad was unemployed, and thus, José ´s Godfather Bob, a former New Yorker, and dear friend of my Publisher, hired the father of José at the old Torrejón Military Base in Madrid ... José ´s dad had never forgotten Bob´s kindness and he asked Bob, to be José ´s God father ...
 
He has quite a repertoire of tapas bars in Wash DC and I understand a restaurant in Los Angeles and a new place in Las vegas ...
 
I had eaten at his TAPAS BAR in D.C. in 2011 ... Noisy, like Madrid, or Barcelona or Sevilla, Spain however, fascinating play with ingredients, and wonderful Spanish wines.
 
Yes, he is quite involved with El Bullí Foundation and the Harvard Univ. in Cambridge, Mass. science of food project ... with headquarters in Barcelona.
 
 Thanks for ur reply.
 
 
 
Margi.
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 11:47
Ron,
 
Ha ha ... good sense of humor ...
 
Yes, BATALI is just how I described him ... I had a hell of good time chatting with him at the Hotel ... and I had eaten at one of his NYC restaurants several times ... the one on Mc Dougal St. in Greenwich Village ... we lived in my Grandmom´s old flat which is Thompson St. about 4 streets from Batali´s Ristorante Batali ... Not Del Posto, in the Meat Packing District, also Greenwich Village however, much further west ... on the Hudson River. He can spend 62 hrs plus, just eating for his books and recipes ... and for incorporating recipes for his restaurants. He travels with an enterage of about 5 gents ... Sous, Asst to Chef, Line Men and Food and Beverage Director ... His team !  
 
The emotions eating Italian, now u understand !!! 
 
The Greeks are quite similar ... very talkative about their cuisine too ... We had extensive conversations about EMILIA ROMAGNA and BOLOGNA ... He recommended several trattorias where he has eaten ... Fabulous ... Of course, I have the list !!! and have eaten at the recommended venues as well ... REAL HOME ITALIAN ... ITALIAN ITALIAN ... simple rustic and divino !!!
 
Kindest. Margi.
 
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
Daikon View Drop Down
Chef's Apprentice
Chef's Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: 20 October 2011
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:11
On one of his T.V. programmes aired in Madrid Capital, Spain, Ramsey globe trots to restaurants worldwide and performs a renovation, re-engineering, re-mentoring and remodelling of every section of a restaurant, the carte, the kitchen training and decor to make a failing business, profitable in these hard times.

Now do some research on how well these restaurants do after Ramsay has supposedly transformed them.  A few have done well, but more have not.  Some of their chefs and owners now have very negative things to say about Ramsay and his restaurant make-over shows, and at least a couple of these chefs and owners are in jail or even dead (at least one by suicide) after their time on Ramsay's show.
Back to Top
HistoricFoodie View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 21 February 2012
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 4945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:22
For starters, let's not confuse "good" television with good kitchen skills.
 
In Ramsey's case, all that yelling and screaming is done for the benefit of the TV cameras. In fact, when he makes shows for the U.S. market he rachets it up, because that's what sells. Compare his UK version of Kitchen Nightmares with the US version.
 
In terms of the real Ramsey, The F Word is probably closer to what he's really like. One indicator: His current staff has averaged nine years with him. That's a hellofa stretch for somebody who's being mistreated.
 
If he's a little harsh, it has to do with his striving for perfection, on one hand (and expecting the same from the people who work for him), and the fact he trained under Pierre Marco White, on the other. White actually does behave that way. Or did until he chucked-in high-end cooking to open a country inn.
 
If Ramsey has any fault as a culinarian it's that he has a super-sensitive palate. His ability to detect flavors and ingredients is nothing short of incredible. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to realize it's a special ability, and can't understand it when others aren't quite as discerning.
 
And the fact remains, he's the most successful restaurantour in recent history, with 22 Michelin stars among his various restaurants.
 
I only know Jamie Oliver through TV, and was never impressed with him. Still don't understand what the attraction is. He's not particularly creative. He presents things dishonestly (anybody here actually believe he was doing Jamie At Home out of his own garden?), and is using his fame in one area to promote a political agenda. Not my sort at all.
 
As to Giada, I have all sorts of feelings about her, all negative. I don't think her food is even a very good representation of Italo-American, let alone real Italian. And I would like to see her pronounce "pasta" the same way twice in a row.  When I tune in a cooking show its because I'm looking for culinary insights. If I want a bowl of boob soup, I'll turn on the Playboy network.
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:30
Historic Foodie,
 
Pleased to see that you  have joined us ... If you re-read my views, you shall understand my stance on Ramsey ...  I had not known that Jaime is considering UK politics ... I happen to like his book on the Mediterranean, lovely take on the regional Mediterranean cuisines ...
 
I do not know the Lady that has Ron, has mentioned earlier ...
 
she is quite attractive, however, have never seen her prior to this evening.
 
USA: I am a Batali Fan all the way ( know him and know his Italian regional ... and he is a true foodie all the way ...  and José Andrés for Tapas is extraordinaire as well in a totally different way ...
 
then, Grant Achatz --- he has garnered many awards and he is the favorite of Ferrán Adriá for the 2012 London Rest. Awards ...
 
Thanks for posting ...
Happy Holidays.
Margi.  
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25 January 2010
Location: Chinook, MT
Status: Offline
Points: 9389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:35
regarding the success (or lack thereof) of the restaurants ramsay has "helped," i'm not surprised that only a few have succeeded, but the deaths/suicide does make some sense, considering that many restauranteurs have their entire life's investment (financially and emotionally) into the place. i do agree with brook's assessment that the US and UK shows are entirely different, due to the intended market.
 
as for oliver, i didn't mind the "fake" set of his show, but his crusading, even if he believes it is for a good cause, is a little over the top for me.
 
batali - i would love to cook with this guy for a couple of weeks - and that, to me, really sums it up.
 
giada de laurentiis - i'll be serious a moment about her and say that, looking beyond the obvious, i really do enjoy her enthusiasm for her food, and listening to her talk about how her love for cooking stems from her italian family, i can really appreciate where she comes from and it makes me more interested in trying what she shows us. in her books, she does unabashedly advocate a few shortcuts (pre-packaged dough for bread dishes etc.), but defends this "everyday" approach on the grounds that in the modern american lifelstyle, it is difficult for many people to do EVERYTHING from scratch and by hand. though this is unfortunate, i do have to agree with her, and if i want to make a dough rather than used a pre-made one from the store, i simply make a dough, for example. her earlier show, "everyday italian" had much more appeal to me than her newer show does, and i hardly ever watch "giada's kitchen."
 
in fact, i think it was a bit of a mistake for the food network to take their most popular shows in the direction that they were taken. doing so made the personalities and the food much less "accessable," for lack of a better word, and i don't find myself connecting as much with any of the newer shows.
If you are a visitor and like what you see, please click here and join the discussions in our community!
Back to Top
Margi Cintrano View Drop Down
Master Chef
Master Chef
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2012
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 6362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:38
@ Daikon,
 
Have you read this  and where or have you known culinary professionals who have worked with Ramsey ?
 
I know he sued someone for writing bad PR about him in  an article --- not on his restaruants ... him ... it was on the Spanish News ... they do a culinary section ...  
 
He made it quite clear, that he stands for no attacks on him personally ... if you want to criticize his dishes, then, there is proof ...
 
I can see that he has a " strong character " ... and as I have said in prior posts to you, and Ron as well, he is brilliant on the culinary side ... Now, you have me so curious, I am going to contact Gaetano, in Palermo, and ask him how his internship was ---
 
Kindest.
Happy Holiday.
Margi.
 
 
Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina.
Back to Top
Daikon View Drop Down
Chef's Apprentice
Chef's Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: 20 October 2011
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:42
While I'm generally a fan of Mario Batali (and especially of his dad's charcuterie shop in Seattle), this kind of thing really gives me pause.  Related to the above lawsuit, I also catch a whiff of something undefined but unpleasant about the Bastianich restaurant empire -- I can't put my finger on it, but I'd certainly be doing a lot of due diligence research if I ever had the opportunity to go into business with Joe or Lydia Bastianich.
Back to Top
Daikon View Drop Down
Chef's Apprentice
Chef's Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: 20 October 2011
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 12:49
Originally posted by Margi Cintrano Margi Cintrano wrote:

@ Daikon,
 
Have you read this  and where
There is plenty to be found about Ramsay online.  Of course, not all of it is worth taking seriously, and Ramsay isn't completely to blame for everything that happens after the show ends; but there is another side to the stories that generally doesn't make it onto the TV.  Here's a starter.  And, of course, Eric Ripert (a chef for whom I have a great deal more respect than I do for Ramsay) has famously criticized Gordon Ramsay.
Back to Top
HistoricFoodie View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 21 February 2012
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 4945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2012 at 13:06

Only thing that surprised me about that lawsuit is that there wasn't a corresponding criminal suit as well. Management is specifically excluded, under federal law, from sharing tips. 

I used to be a big fan of Batali. But more and more I realize that for him it's strictly about the money, and promoting his restaurants and products any way he can---which often means making things up out of whole cloth and grossly contradicting himself.
 
I was particularly amused when Batali said, in a public forum, that the recipes in Molto Gusto were not designed to be followed by the home cook; but, rather, were merely there to demonstate the kinds of food they serve at Otto. Uh, huh! That must have really filled the publicists at Harper-Collins with joy.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.252 seconds.