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Pressure cooker and canner basics

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TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 May 2013 at 10:11
Following are excerpts from a conversation that I recently had with HistoricFoodie:
 
Originally posted by Brook Brook wrote:

There is a difference between pressure cookers and pressure canners. You can cook in a pressure canner, but should not can in a pressure cooker.

The time/pressure figures for any particular food product factor in heat-up and cool-down time as part of the processing equation. Because pressure cookers have significantly less volume, the time/pressure figures get thrown all out of whack.

As to converting pressures, the only charts I've seen for this are for adjusting for attitude. With a jiggler system, you go to 15 psi for anything greater than 1,000 feet. With a dial gauge, there are more precise conversions. For instance, 4,001-6,000 feet above sea level you go to 13 psi.

But the time stays the same.
 
Originally posted by Ron Ron wrote:

Thanks for the advice, Brook - my pressure cooker did not come with very detailed instructions, so it's good to know these things.
If I read you right: regardless of the pressure - which depends on altitude - the time is the same?
 
Originally posted by Brook Brook wrote:

That's correct, Ron.

In a pressure canner, you have to adjust for altitude because the higher you go, the lower the temperature at which water boils.

So, if a recipe says "40 minutes at 10 psi," and you're at 6,000 feet, you up the pressure to 15 pounds for the same 40 minutes.

Let me stress, again, that this applies to pressure canners, not the much smaller pressure cookers.
 
I figured that this conversation would be a good opportunity to open up a discussion on 'the basics" where pressure cookers and canners are concerned.
 
One question I have is regarding how pressure cookers shouldn't be used for canning. I understand why this is, but then I have recipes such as this one in my files:
 
http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/smoky-canned-big-game-chunks_topic64.html
 
As can be seen in the photos, a pressure cooker rather than a pressure canner is used; so, is it safe to do for that recipe? Is it simply obsolete information?
 
For what it's worth, I bought a similar pressure cooker specifically to try this recipe, based on the instructions and the photos. This was before I knew the difference between pressure cookers and canners. I did try the recipe, and the meat stayed on the shelf for over a year before I tried it. It tasted great, and there were no ill effects. But since then, I've learned about pressure canners.
 
So then I wonder, did I dodge a bullet? Can I make this recipe again the same way I did last time?
 
Anyway, I know I can't be the only person who has these questions, so I thought that a topic discussing the fundamentals of canning might be a good one. I've bought a newer-edition Ball Blue Book (which really isn't blue anymore), and have learned a few things; but to me, real, in-depth discussions are so much better at answering specific questions on specific issues, and also for imparting practical, real-world advice.
 
Fire away!
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Rod Franklin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 12:08
I think the pictures show a pressure canner, just not a very big one, and then they've misnamed it a cooker instead of a canner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 13:16
Originally posted by Rod Franklin Rod Franklin wrote:

I think the pictures show a pressure canner, just not a very big one, and then they've misnamed it a cooker instead of a canner.


So, if the main difference between a cooker and a canner is the size, and because of that you need to change the times, wouldn't you need to do the same with a smaller presser canner like the one shown?

I'm confused. OuchConfused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 14:06
To answer your question, in this case, size doesn't matter. It's the operating pressure that changes things the most. Water boils at a fixed temperature at a given pressure. The higher the operating pressure, the higher the possible temperature above boiling that can be obtained, and faster the cook time. So you could can at 15psi, and things would happen much quicker because the temperature is considerably higher, but you would loose flavor and nutrients, so higher than normal canning pressures aren't necessary or desirable.
 
I think the confusion lies in the fact that a pressure canner and a pressure cooker are essentially the same things. Both are pressure vessels designed to boil water at increased pressures. A canner runs at 10 to 12 psi and a pressure cooker runs at 15 psi. However, some pressure cookers and some pressure canners can be run at different pressures selected by the user, making either, for the most part interchangeable.

Pressure canners can be quite large too. They need to be to hold for example, 7 or 8 quart jars of food. It would be a rare occasion that a person would need a pressure cooker that large to make dinner.

I said the pictures showed a canner because of the racks used and the rattling weight that is pictured lying on the counter in one of the photos. Again canners and cookers really the same thing, just set up to do a different set of tasks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 15:37
I have to disagree with you somewhat, Rod.

It's true that the operating method is the same for both. Heating water in a pressure vessel allows it to reach higher temperatures than normal.

However, all reputable recipes for canning include both the heat-up and cool down times as part of the processing. And that's where the differences lie.

Here's a representative example. Caveat: All figures are made up out of thin air, and are not part of a real recipe.

Let's say you are canning venison. The recipe says to work at 10 psi for 90 minutes. That 90 minutes starts when the weight starts to jiggle or the gauge says 10 psi, not when you close the pot.

So let's assume it takes 20 minutes to reach the 10 psi point. 90 minutes later you turn off the heat. It then takes 30 minutes for the pressure to drop and you can open the lid.

Those 50 minutes are part of the processing time.

If you repeat the recipe in a canner, it might take only 5 minutes to heat up. And only 15 or 20 to cool down. So you have eliminated 30 minutes worth of measured processing.

Among food safety professionals that is considered an unsafe practice.

Is it actually unsafe? Perhaps not. But safe, in this context, is defined as having the food reach, and be sustained at, 240F. And you just don't know if that's the case in a smaller cooker.

The key here, as in anything to do with food preservation, is to understand the why of the rules. Then you can make an informed decision as to whether to slavishly follow the rules or not.

I agree with you that the unit shown in the pix is probably a small canner, a size that is now considered outmoded. Chances are the original instructions came with it's own set of recipes. Modern recipes, from Ball, the National Center, and even USDA are based on canners with capacity ranging from 19-22 quarts.

An interesting side-not on pressure measurements. Most recipes actually have two different pressure recommendations, depending on the type of unit being used. Those with jiggler weights specify 10 psi, because the weights are scaled for 5, 10, and 15 psi. For units with gauges, the recipes specify the more precise 11 or 12 psi.

What this means in practical terms is that 10 psi is the minimum safe processing pressure. Going higher could, as you note, have effects on the quality of the food. But it won't be an unsafe practice.

The one thing to avoid is having the pressure fluctuate greatly, up and down, over the course of the processing time. Doing so can lead to some surprises, such as finding soup in the bottom of the pot because the jars overflowed due to the pressure changes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 15:41
One more point about pressure vessels, whether cookers or canners.

None of the modern units available is unsafe to use. Most of the horror tales you hear about units exploding, etc. stem from the late 1940s when pressure cooking became the rage, and the market was flooded with a lot of poorly designed and poorly manufactured units.

Nowadays they all have safety releases of various kinds; many actually have redundant releases.

So don't be afraid of trying either type unit, appropriately.
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