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Russian Borodinski Bread - Event Date: 07 September 2011 - 08 September 2011

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got14u View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote got14u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 09:01
Man I didn't get to read this whole thing but as usual you look like you out did your self again....I love the smell bread baking has..
Jerod

Life's hard, it's even harder when your stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 10:49
Well thanks Jerod, that's real nice of you to say! When you get a chance, you might want to read the whole post, and it could be a fun project for your boys to do.
 
Here's the mash/starter after one hour....rollicking along real nicely~ Looks like the top part of a malted milk!
 
 
And here we are after a couple. It looks so active and frothy, that I don't think there is any more need for sitting around. Time to bake some bread!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2011 at 15:06
 
 
“Don’t say you’re full if you haven’t touched the bread.” - Russian proverb.

 

 

To those of us accustomed to abundance, the idea of a ‘staple’ food suggests a possibly fragile dependence on a narrow range of resources.

 

Our lifestyle delivers year-round access to agricultural produce from all over the world. The notion that any one item of diet should be revered - unless on grounds of price and exclusivity – seems vaguely folkloric in this age of global trade and international brands. However, it is we who may be the poorer if we fail to appreciate that the relationship of a people to its primary food is not only intrinsically important, but also a route by which sensitive outsiders may understand a culture.

 

Take Russia and bread. An old Russian saying warns that when we die, all the bread we’ve ever wasted will be weighed; if it turns out to be more than the weight of our body, we will go to Hell. Countless proverbs and sayings testify to the respect in which Russians hold the staff of life. The Russian term for hospitality, khlyeb-sol’ (bread-salt), testifies to the actual and symbolic significance ascribed to these humble foods.

 

Grains were crucial to the diet of the Slavs as they penetrated the forests of European Russia a thousand years ago. They seem to have combined farming with gathering (of fungi, berries, wild plants, nuts, fish and game) in ways which continued into modern times. Rye was the dominant grain of the Northern areas, where its tolerance of poor soils and the short growing season gave it advantages over wheat which was more widely grown in Southern parts and the Ukraine...

 
(From : Gastronomica, The Journal of Food & Culture, University of California Press, Berkeley, CA)
 
 
And with that, above, I hope that we can begin to understand the importance of bread, not only as a food, but as an important "nourisher" of our lives.
 
Bread is, and has always been, one of the "ur-foods" of mankind. Good bread should be eaten and enjoyed with the respect it deserves.
 
Hot Borodinski bread has come out of our oven and is cooling now. Pics later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2011 at 08:06
Once I decided it was time to bake, I made up my premix: this was a lot better idea than last time when I just added cup after cup of rye flour and tablespoon after tablespoon of wheat flour and it turned out into a mess. I figured I would need at least 5 cups of rye flour, so I measured that out and all the other dry ingredients in the correct ratio, and mixed them up. This way, I could scoop them up little by little as I made the dough.
 
 
I ended up with 3 loaves again, but these rose magnificently! I'm sure the malted rye had plenty to do with that, plus the grains were really swollen with water.
 
 
SInce the grains in the dough had moisture I baked them for an additional hour at 300F on top of all the other bakings, half hour each at 400, 350 & 325 degrees.
 
I set them out to rest overnight, again foiled, and cut them up this morning....
 
 
The dough is clearly much more moist than the last batch, and this is due to the rye grains in the dough itself carrying the added moisture. I preferred the texture of the last loaves better...as is, they will be perfect toasted. They may have even benefitted for another half an hour in the 300F oven.
 
 
The taste was slightly richer, slightly. I expected a lot more to come from the malted rye mash, but that was not the case. Comparativley speaking, the mash stage wasn't worth the extra effort. It was a fine and fun excercise, but for pure taste and simplicity, the malted syrup was perfect. The twin sour flavors combined into one good one and it was no better nor worse than the standard, or previous batch. All in all, I'm glad I did this and have some good tasting bread, too. Thanks for following the thread!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melissa Mead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2011 at 09:23
I so want rye bread right now. I have some Havarti with dill, and imagining it toasted on a bread like this is driving me mad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2011 at 13:33
well, john - in all of the chinook/havre, montana area, which is the ONLY area for a hundred-mile radius, there is only one source for rye flour: a 22 oz. bag of it at the havre IGA for almost 4-and-a-half dollars. the flour comes from www.bobsredmill.com, and i am sure it will be fine, but i can't believe the scarcity of the stuff.
 
here are the specifics on the flour:
 
 
i'm starting a new thread, since this firist rye bread of mine will not involve the borodinski difference of coriander seeds. i'll want to work my way up through a loaf or three before i try any variations.
 
so, with this 22-oz bag, some blackstrap and a sketchy plan involving a rye sour-dough, what do i do next?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2011 at 13:54
Good Lord that is expensive, but not a surprise since we have just about every Bob's Red Mill product available, and it is TOP DOLLAR! Wow. The good thing about Bob's is that it is top quality, and the brand carries every type of grain (inluding corn and others) imagineable. It is also fresh, of the highest quality and milled to perfection from real stones- from what I understand. Unfortunately, one pays the price.
 
It's sad that up there in America's rye country you can't get 5 lb sacks of rye flour at "normal" prices.
 
The bag plus regular wheat flour should be fine for your foray into rye bread. Be aware, that 22 oz is not but about 3 cups or so. If you end up using too much liquid you are going to have to fill the void with bread flour, which will dilute your rye, which will result in a bread that is only partly rye, in the 50% range, and not at all like the heavy dense rye you are looking for. Just go real easy on the sourdough (liquid).
 
The first thing you need to do is make a sourdough starter. Just use the good ol' standard we've talked about before using instant potato flakes, water, yeast and a bit of sugar or honey or molasses. Let this sour for 7 days! (Potato sourdough starter takes longer to reach the right level).
 
Next week, just follow my initial recipe from the thread, minus the coriander, and you should be set. I would stick with no more than 1 cup sourdough starter for the entire liquid. That should use up the 22 oz of rye flour, plus the 6 TBSP of bread flour you need for an 80% rye bread.
 
The dough is TOUGH, dense and hard to work. You will sweat. Don't give in to the idea to add just a bit of water. The dough needs to be the way it is for proper baking.
 
I'll be glad to help more when you get there, and congratulations, you are going to discover some fine historical bread if you stick to the directions religiously.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2011 at 13:43
I will say this about that.....after two days the moisture in the bread certainly re-distributed itself and made the loaves much better, and less moist in the center. A wonderful improvement! What better way to celebrate this improvement than to have some typical open-faced rye sammy's for lunch?
 
Found these ingredients in the fridge and the fishes in the cupboard. Not pictured was a partial jar I later found of Italian-Style, Spicy Gardineria. Of course, some sharp swiss cheese would have been perfect, but I didn't have any.
 
 
Layers of deliciousness topped off with that Gardineria.....wonderful~ and a frosty mug of beer made this a feast that is one of the better ways to enjoy this bread.
 
 
I think I will seal and deepfreeze the third loaf of this rye-mash-made bread, and save it for later, even though it stays fresh for over a week in the cupboard. I don't want it to go to waste. What a wonderful bread...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2012 at 15:02
Since there isn't an actual recipe here, i'm adding this one, which I found posted by a jkandell at thefreshloaf.com:
 
Quote

Authentic Borodinsky

Authentic Borodinsky Rye

By Jonathan Kandell, based on recipes by Auermann and Bolgov and Feldstein
Makes one small loaf

Overview
 
Six steps:
 
1) Making rye sour
2) Scalding the flour (the mash)
3) Making the sourdough sponge
4) Mixing the final dough
5) Final Rise (Proof)
6) Baking

I. Making a rye sour. The afternoon before baking add
 
• ½c rye flour
• 2T stored starter (any type)
• enough water to make a liquid starter.
Leave overnight till the next morning (as you do step 2) at room temperature until it's light airy and full of bubbles. Feel free to follow a different refreshment regimen so long as one way or the other you end up with about ½ cup of active poolish-consistency rye starter.

II. Zavarka (the mash)
 
• Dark rye flour 1 C
• Malt flour 3T (grind 3T of malted grain in coffee grinder: I prefer Maris Otter 2-row barley or rye malt, both available at brewery stores)
• Coriander seed 1T fresh crushed coriander (not bottled powdered, unless extremely fresh)
• Boiling Water 1 ½ c
 
Scald the rye and malt: Mix ground malt and coriander with 1½c boiling water, stirring while adding boiling water. Enjoy the wonderful smell of malt, gather family and insist they smell it too. When cooled to 85F (slightly colder than your finger), around 2-3 hrs, proceed to step 3.

III. Create the levain sponge Mix the active rye starter from step 1 thoroughly into the warm scald from step 2. Let sit at room temperature to ferment. When full of "air" and actively bubbling on top (around 4 hours), proceed to step 4.
 
IV. Dough

• Salt, 1 teaspoon
• Coriander, crushed 2 or more teaspoons

Stir above into sponge and mix well. Then add:
• Dark rye flour 2 cups
• White bread or all purpose flour ½ cup
• Honey 2 tablespoon (or 1T sugar, 1T honey)

Mix and knead. You may need up to ¼ c more wheat flour if the dough doesn't come together, but try not to add much. Rye does not need much kneading, about 10 minutes in a bread machine on dough cycle. This rye dough will not move around the machine like wheat does; it will stay in one place, moist and slimy and sticky and gross. Use a spatula to continually push the dough in toward the blade. You can alternatively mix with a wooden spoon for up to half an hour, taking breaks as needed.
 
V. Proofing. Form into a loaf in loaf pans. Using wet hands, slap the sticky wet dough firmly down into pan. I recommend a lightly sprayed silicon loaf pan sitting within a glass or metal loaf pan to hold the shape. Let the dough rise to just above the pan, around 4 hours. In a rush you can get away with half of that.

VI. Baking Bake at around 350F for 1 hour and 300F for another half hour, or until hollow sounding when tapped on bottom. After cooling, wrap in tin foil and then in a plastic bag. Leave this wrapped cocoon out at least 24 hours. The bread will be moist in middle at first but the moisture will spread evenly after the wait.
 
i will read the posts above more thoroughly when i have time - and may move this recipe to the opening post, if it is the same as the methods john used. it could very well be that they incorporate this recipe above - it's just that by posting the recipe, i'm hoping to consolidate the whole idea together, so that someone can attempt this great-looking bread with some outline as to how it goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2012 at 08:29
Tas, Buonasera,
 
Firstly, the aromas of fresh baking bread fill the home base with cheer and harmony ... Always such a pleasure ...
 
I am quite a fan of rye, black and whole wheat variety breads ... And this recipe is a classic tradition and so pleased to see you have brought it back to the front boards.
 
Would love to see your pictorial to simplify the process.
 
Thanks,
Margi.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melissa Mead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2012 at 10:00
Now I'm craving toasted smoked cheese on rye bread, with mustard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margi Cintrano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2012 at 10:41
Melissa,
 
You are quite dangerous LOL
 
I am a cheese-a-holic and truly enjoy Smoked cow variety cheeses.
 
There is an absolute wonderful cheese in northwestern Spain in the autonomous province of Lugo, Galicia called: SAN SIMÓN D.O. ( designation of origin ) Vilalba, 1/2 hour from Lugo.
 
A good smoked Gouda is lovely too.
 
Which smoked cheeses do you enjoy ?
 
This is marvelous, if you ever come across it as they are now exporting to the USA.
 
www.foodsfromspain.com ( their headquarters are in NYC and they can advise which products the USA imports from Spain )
 
www.madeinspain.com ( Chef José Andrés - English website )  
 
Kind regards.
Margi.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melissa Mead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2012 at 12:28
I've only tried Gruyere. Oh, and smoked Gouda. That was good too.
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