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Cold Smoking&Maturing Meats;The Art of Cold Smoke

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gonefishin View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 February 2015 at 08:52
   Cold Smoking & Maturing Meats
 
 I'm wondering if I can get some information on any traditional methods of cold smoking and maturing meats.  I can then ponder how/if i can come up with a method using the environment and equipment that I have.  

  While I have done cold smokes before on my Backwoods Fatboy...I'm really interested in learning traditional ways of cold smoking.  I'd like to get information on the methods used for cold smoking including temperatures, air flow, wood selections...and the continued thought of maturing meats after cold smoking. 

    I've seen some mention that a ratio soft woods to hardwoods can be desirable when cold smoking.  Statements like this lead me to believe that there is much I have to learn about old world cold smoking as an art.

  Any thoughts are appreciated...thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AK1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2015 at 16:54
You might want to consider this book;http://www.amazon.com/Smoking-Smokehouse-Design-Stanley-Marianski/dp/0982426704/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&keywords=meat%20smoking%20and%20smokehouse%20design&linkCode=ur2&qid=1423186181&sr=8-1&tag=wedlinydomowe-20&linkId=R73DONCBNBG2EAAE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2015 at 17:55
That book looks pretty good, Darko - thanks for posting it!

I can't comment on any specifics, really - but in general I am coming to believe that it is a lot easier than most of us make it to be. I dawns on me that most of our ancestors - going back several hundred years - engaged in these practices with extremely primitive equipment and the barest inkling of scientific knowledge. For them, it wasn't a hobby or pastime - it was survival through the winter.

I've done a few curing/cold-smoking projects now, as a complete amateur, and results so far have been very, very good. In spite of my inferior knowledge and skill, the meats I have produced have been superior to most - if not all - that I could buy at the typical grocery.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2015 at 18:27
Cold smoking is in the true sense a lost art, there has been a lot of things said of what can be done and what can not be done that it has confused way too many people ... it is in essence one of the most simplest things to do 

In the 'most' simplest terms --- hang the meat, light the smoker, close the door and walk away. 

Thats it   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2015 at 19:34
Quote In the 'most' simplest terms --- hang the meat, light the smoker, close the door and walk away. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2015 at 11:56
Originally posted by AK1 AK1 wrote:

You might want to consider this book;http://www.amazon.com/Smoking-Smokehouse-Design-Stanley-Marianski/dp/0982426704/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&keywords=meat%20smoking%20and%20smokehouse%20design&linkCode=ur2&qid=1423186181&sr=8-1&tag=wedlinydomowe-20&linkId=R73DONCBNBG2EAAE

  Thanks AK!  Have you got this book yourself?  The summary sounds good and the reviews are quite complimentary.  I may end up getting the kindle version of the book.

  
Originally posted by BriCan BriCan wrote:

Cold smoking is in the true sense a lost art, there has been a lot of things said of what can be done and what can not be done that it has confused way too many people ... it is in essence one of the most simplest things to do 

In the 'most' simplest terms --- hang the meat, light the smoker, close the door and walk away. 

Thats it   


  Wise words BriCan!

  But if there were any confusion in my head, it is from specific things that you have said about cold smoking.  Often eluding to something "more"...something of an "artform".  

   I've also seen you mention using 2/3:1/3 soft woods/Hardwood.  This thought is contrary to what is thought when hot smoking, I have never heard of anyone recommending the use of soft woods, especially to that high a level.  You wrote as if this use of softwoods is common in Europe when cold smoking. 

   Nearly everything I have read before on cold smoking seems straightforward and of like thinking.  But you eluded that current cold smoking practices aren't up to some of the European techniques.  Please note that I'm not trying to be confrontational, only to explain myself.  But if there is any confusion it is because you eluded to there being "more" to cold smoking on several levels without elaborating when asked directly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2015 at 18:10
Originally posted by gonefishin gonefishin wrote:

Originally posted by BriCan BriCan wrote:

Cold smoking is in the true sense a lost art, there has been a lot of things said of what can be done and what can not be done that it has confused way too many people ... it is in essence one of the most simplest things to do 

In the 'most' simplest terms --- hang the meat, light the smoker, close the door and walk away. 

Thats it   


  Wise words BriCan!

  But if there were any confusion in my head, it is from specific things that you have said about cold smoking.  Often eluding to something "more"...something of an "artform".

In a sense it is an artform, a person with the love for what they do is in a sense a picture of what they do/make, a sense of pride  

Quote I've also seen you mention using 2/3:1/3 soft woods/Hardwood.  This thought is contrary to what is thought when hot smoking

This is where you have to stop thinking along the same lines --- separate the two 

Hot smoking is just that -- it smokes as well as cooks, your temperatures start at 145f (drying phase) increased to 155f for smoking and to 190f for cooking (I might be off on the temperatures as I am quoting commercial hot smoking) --- woods to be used --- hardwoods to give off the heat

Cold smoking is also just that -- "cold"

All we are doing is adding flavour to the items that we are smoking -- we are not attempting to "cook" these items, what we are (trying to) do is "preserve" -- extend shelf life as was done in the olden days -- this is what I akin to as the artform 

Temperatures on cold smoking "never" exceed 100f -- for safety sake as well as fat bleed out temperatures do not usually go above 90f --- with this understanding (????) this tells our fires cannot be hot , they have to be cool, hence a smouldering fire -- embers if you will -- in Europe in the old days to keep fires smouldering when burning hardwoods softwoods would be added to help the fire along -- Fir is used in Bavaria in smoking Schwarzwälder Schinken to give it a particular taste  

   
Quote I have never heard of anyone recommending the use of soft woods, especially to that high a level.

High leave of what? 

We must remember we are not hot smoking/cooking, but smoking to add flavour and preserve 

Quote You wrote as if this use of softwoods is common in Europe when cold smoking.

 http://www.schinken-wein.de/manufaktur/herstellung

SMOKING AND TIRES
Another secret of our ham flavor: original Black Forest pine woods, spruce woods and juniper branches that come into our smokehouses brick used 

Quote Nearly everything I have read before on cold smoking seems straightforward and of like thinking.  But you eluded that current cold smoking practices aren't up to some of the European techniques.  Please note that I'm not trying to be confrontational, only to explain myself.  But if there is any confusion it is because you eluded to there being "more" to cold smoking on several levels without elaborating when asked directly.

No offence taken and please understand I am not trying to come across as a know it all far from it 

It is true that 'most' current cold smoking practices are not up to standards (even in Europe) as to what they used to be...

It seems that everyone is in such a big rush to get things done they forget to stop along the way and smell the roses ... if you get my drift.

If ... and thats a "big" If you have spent good time to dry cure your products without cutting corners it is only common sense to do things the right way when smoking .. I can do bacon in a hot smoker in two and a half hours (commercial smoker) .. it is going to taste ok but that is all it is ... ok 

Cold smoking on the other hand takes a minimum (to do it right) of four days smoking .. in essence a whole week (and that dose not include the seven to twelve days aging/maturing) .. why one asks one needs to give the meat a rest during the smoking so that it will not get bitter .. its all about building layers of flavour

I have known people to have given there product eight to twelve hours of smoke and believe that they have done the best ... taste test on stuff that I produce blows then out of the water with them asking on how dose one active such flavours 

The answer is simple ... time 

Please understand I am not trying to blow my own horn nor am I trying to say my way is the best .. far from it ... you asked a legitimate question and I have tried to give you a honest answer 

The other part of this is that I do this for a living and have for over fifty years, one of the top Chefs in Vancouver where I am and who I work for has told me in polite terms never to change what I do -- if that helps Wink

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2015 at 06:41
  BriCan...thanks so much for your well thought out thorough reply!  The reason I was so persistent, perhaps a bit too much so, was because I do value your opinion/experience and I believe you have a slightly different perspective to give it from.  

    Having an outdoor wood furnace to heat our new house, I understand your use of softwoods now...along with having a much better method in my head about cold smoking.  

   I'm going to start curing two bellies for my first European type bacon today, I can't wait to start the process!  While I have made bacon before, I'm excited to learn the differences that a slow smoke and hang can provide.

   thanks for taking the time!

Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2015 at 08:41
You'll be very happy with it I think, Dan - 

My smoke was about 22 hours and seemed about right considering the individual 1.5-pound slabs and the small, confined enclosure; if I would have been doing larger slabs in a more open smokehouse with better airflow, I am sure it would have been longer. 

The smoke seemed a little strong right when I first tried the bacon, but still quite good to my taste - however, after two or three weeks in the refrigerator, all of the flavours equalised beautifully, and it transformed into a wonderfully-developed, delicious and mouth-watering experience. 

Don't neglect the hanging and aging, either! I went 3 days, but I am willing to bet 2 or 3 more days would have been even better to develop maturity. The time in the refrigerator helped, but I am betting that the open air would work better.

You will certainly gain knowledge, insight and a feel for it when you get going on it. For a first attempt, mine went very well, and I consider it a success - but, it can be even better! Three things I plan to do (well, four, actually) to improve my next batch are: 

1) a little more spice and maple sugar
2) a little better airflow when smoking 
3) adding some juniper berries to the smoke
4) a little longer aging in the open
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2015 at 08:56
   Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Tas!  I won't be doing the maple sugar, though I may order some in the future.  I'll be interested to see how I manage the heat, smoke, airflow in my smoker...then I'll go from there.

  Thanks for the advice!

   oh, I ended up ordering a few things from http://www.butchersupply.net/

   I got some bacon hooks, some stockinettes and hooks too.  Well, some casings as well...but that isn't directly related to smoking.  I'll be interested to see how the bacon hooks work out...I'm looking forward to trying them in the smoking process, as well as hanging afterwards. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AK1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2015 at 10:14
Originally posted by gonefishin gonefishin wrote:


  Thanks AK!  Have you got this book yourself?  The summary sounds good and the reviews are quite complimentary.  I may end up getting the kindle version of the book.


 


Not yet, but I'll probably be getting it soon. I'm at the point where I need to make my own, as my Brother in law isn't smoking anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2015 at 00:38
Originally posted by TasunkaWitko TasunkaWitko wrote:

You'll be very happy with it I think, Dan - 

My smoke was about 22 hours and seemed about right considering the individual 1.5-pound slabs and the small, confined enclosure; if I would have been doing larger slabs in a more open smokehouse with better airflow, I am sure it would have been longer.

The "average" time is "on any item" 36 hours ...... large or small ... look at the pork shoulder Bavarian style I have on my facebook page ... roughly 1kg (2 1/4 lbs) that had 48 hours cold smoke 

Quote The smoke seemed a little strong right when I first tried the bacon, but still quite good to my taste - however, after two or three weeks in the refrigerator, all of the flavours equalised beautifully, and it transformed into a wonderfully-developed, delicious and mouth-watering experience.

Don't neglect the hanging and aging, either! I went 3 days, but I am willing to bet 2 or 3 more days would have been even better to develop maturity. The time in the refrigerator helped, but I am betting that the open air would work better.

On good cold smoking one should be hanging a minimum of 7 days 

I do need to stress one thing ... 

You have cured the bacon using cure #1 to the right amounts  ...... I hope ??

If this is so .... excuse my french .... but why the hell are well aging/maturing in the fridge?? .. which now gets me thinking as we are not doing a strait 22/36 hour cold smoke ... pray what did you do with the bacon between smokes ... curious minds would like to know Unhappy 

What one should be doing is resting at room temperature 55f -65f ... this does two things ... keeps the meat dry and also keeps it warm(ish)  ... When cold smoking you do not want wet items as smoke will not adder to the meat and being cold also has an effect on smoking  

I have bacon, pancetta and the two Bavarian style shoulders hanging in a alcove in the kitchen at work. The temperature is slightly higher than I would like but it has good airflow to compensate it is sitting at 20c (67f) and has been for the last 9 days  



Quote You will certainly gain knowledge, insight and a feel for it when you get going on it. For a first attempt, mine went very well, and I consider it a success - but, it can be even better! Three things I plan to do (well, four, actually) to improve my next batch are: 

1) a little more spice and maple sugar
2) a little better airflow when smoking 
3) adding some juniper berries to the smoke
4) a little longer aging in the open

After reading this I am/was in a mind to delete what I wrote .... but maybe it will help others to understand  ... just my two cents Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BriCan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2015 at 00:46
Originally posted by gonefishin gonefishin wrote:

I'll be interested to see how I manage the heat, smoke, airflow in my smoker...then I'll go from there.

The only thing you need to manage is the smoke and airflow  ..... There 'should not" be any heat at all 


Quote I'll be interested to see how the bacon hooks work out...I'm looking forward to trying them in the smoking process, as well as hanging afterwards. 

You will wonder why you never got them sooner Wink  Thumbs Up

On a side note ... I put mine trough the dishwasher to clean after smoking and maturing ... the bacon hooks that is  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2015 at 15:04
    Thanks BriCan...lots of valuable information.  The items that you have discussed have given me a very good picture to move forward on.  Without your recent advice, I believe I would have been looking at cold smoking as I had, like a checklist...rather than a directed observation.

     My BaCoN is curing...and I'm looking forward to completing the process.  Thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2015 at 10:25
Hi, BriCan - no worries! On some of my points above, I wasn't very clear. Reading them over again, I see that I should have included some more elaboration, which I will attempt to do here:

First and foremost, this was my first attempt, so I was in completely new territory ~ plus, with only the most basic equipment, "interesting" environmental conditions and limited time, I was struggling a bit to find balance between what I could do and what I should do. Your method is definitely the way to go, and as I learn more, I am able to adapt and work my way closer to "doing it right." Thumbs Up

Quote The "average" time is "on any item" 36 hours ...... large or small ... look at the pork shoulder Bavarian style I have on my facebook page ... roughly 1kg (2 1/4 lbs) that had 48 hours cold smoke 

Agreed! My shorter smoking time was mostly due to the fact that I was concerned about the below-zero (Farhenheit!) weather, and the airflow of the "smokehouse," which was really just a thin-skinned Big Chief smoker. The smoke seemed much more dense and was not "flowing" the way I thought it should, and a lot of moisture seemed to be developing. I've always been under the impression that "bad airflow" + "excess moisture" resulted in bitter smoke (creosote) and ruined product, so I cut the smoke short after 2 loads of the AMNPS (about 22 hours). It just seemed as though the environmental conditions weren't right, and I had no real way to regulate or control them, so I made the judgement call.

Quote On good cold smoking one should be hanging a minimum of 7 days 

And I will definitely be doing that next time! Thumbs Up

After the smoking was finished, I kept the bacon hanging in my enclosed front porch, which is sealed for winter. Temperatures in there were at or below zero, so it was all good. I only aged the bacon 3 days, but will definitely going longer with my next batch.

Quote You have cured the bacon using cure #1 to the right amounts? 

I was using TQ - which does have cure #1 in it - in the right amounts. It's what I've used for all curing projects and I have complete faith in it.

Quote If this is so .... excuse my french .... but why the hell are well aging/maturing in the fridge?? .. which now gets me thinking as we are not doing a strait 22/36 hour cold smoke ... pray what did you do with the bacon between smokes ... curious minds would like to know

I wasn't aging/maturing in the fridge - or, I should more properly say that I wasn't intending to. After the 3 days of aging, I simply stored the bacon in the fridge. Over the next couple of weeks, while we consumed the first slab, I noticed that the flavours mellowed out very well, presumably as smoke (and maybe salt, too) equalised throughout the bacon. After two weeks (which was when we finished up the first slab), the bacon tasted so good that I figured it couldn't get any better, so I individually vacuum-packed the remaining 3 and put them in the freezer. Looking back, I guess they were maturing in the fridge, but I hadn't considered that at the time. The next batch will be maturing (properly) in the open air of the front porch, of course.Beer

as for the smoking, I did do it all in one chunk of time - 2 loads on the AMNPS. I let the first load run overnight; it ran out sometime in the very early morning; I started the second load at about 11 a.m. that same morning, if I remember correctly.

Keep in mind, during all this time, my temperatures were ridiculously cold, with no real way to control them - so much of the process was improvised. Results were very, very good, but can (and will) be better next time!

Hope this clarifies, so you can see what my thought process was - advice is always appreciated!Handshake
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