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5 Star Chicken and Rice

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HistoricFoodie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2012 at 14:48
Chicken cracklings are called gribbenes by people of my background. It's a basic snack food, in fact. Also used by many as a component of chopped chicken livers.
 
One other point about low versus high heat when rendering the cracklings: If you work at low heat you can recover the chicken fat, for other uses. Over high heat it almost always burns.
 
While green is certainly an ok choice, you pretty much have a white plate. Personally I'd want to kick it up with something more dramatically colored. Beets, perhaps. Pickled beets would go with the flavor profiles of the chicken, add a real visual kick, and wouldn't require any time to prepare cuz you'd make them (or open the jar) ahead of time. You might consider, too, putting the sauce down first, then the chicken, so that the browned skin shows against it.
 
OK, so the big answer is to just get all the stuff ready before I start.
 
That's culinary rule #3, Rod. You'll find your cooking much more stress free if you do your mise en place first. That way, there's no last-minute scrambling around.
 
Based on your self-described skill level, I would guess that much of the 50 minutes you discuss were taken up breaking down the chicken. For more experienced people, that would not be a big deal. Probably takes me all of five minutes for that job.
 
No, I'm not a hotshot. Speed in butchering is strictly a function of time in grade, and I've broken down a lot of chickens. If you're not already doing so, you might find that kitchen shears can be a better choice than a knife, alone, for breaking down a chicken. But even without them, once you've done a couple of birds, and realize just how the parts are joined (and, therefore, how to separate them) you'll get faster at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2012 at 17:28
Alright, I just made this again, except with chicken thighs because that's what was at hand. I must apologize to Andy, whom I have mislead with my instructions. I have edited the post in red so the change is easy to spot. I think what happened to Andy was that he, per my faulty instruction, put 2 1/4 cups of cold water in the pan with the popped rice, put a lid over it and placed it in a 400F oven for 18 minutes and it's no wonder the rice wasn't done. My bad. Good recovery on his part though.

The water needs to be brought to a boil after being introduced to the pan, then lidded and then in the oven. It will then be done just fine in 18 minutes.

Gribbenes is the first thing I thought of when you said they had a name. I know chopped liver. A guilty treat on rare occasions.
 
As you can see it turned out darker. That's because, as almost always, I did not nail it. The chicken, perfect. However, the onions got brown, the rice got brown, the sherry reduction got too reduced. All in all though it still tasted OK. Even when this stuff is bad, it's good! It is much better when it all comes together though. I'm gonna blame it on the new gas stove...

Once the timer is set for 15 minutes and the oven door closed, there could be time to throw together a side dish. My kitchen looked like a typhoon went through it at that point though. And if I had tried to keep everything on the stove top, there would have been precious little room to add another cooking vessel on there. Putting this stuff in the oven is a good move.

Iron chef challenge: Historic Foodie, cook this dish per the procedure as outlined. Keep an eye on your times.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 March 2012 at 17:42
What are culinary rules 1 and 2?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2012 at 02:54
Rule #1: Everything's better with bacon.
Rule #2: Never trust a skinny chef.
 
All in all though it still tasted OK.
 
You know what Saint Julia used to say? "Don't be afraid....you can always eat your mistakes." One extension of that is that just because your version doesn't look like a food stylest's version doesn't mean it's wrong. L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace, my friend.
 
I'm going to make one suggestion. Please take it in the spirit it's offered: GET RID OF YOUR TIMERS!! No kidding. You are relying on them, rather than developing a sense of when things are ready.
 
There are, for instance, only two reasons why onions turn brown: you cook them too long, or you cook them over too high a heat. If you want them caramelized, that's fine. But if you only want them sweated, as is the case in this recipe, then just sweat them. Forget the timer. Cook them gently until they are tender and translucent. How long will that take? As long as it takes.
 
The one thing to always keep in mind is that recipes, in general, are only guidelines. And timing instructions, within them, even more so.
 
Let's look at some of the factors which can affect timing: The pan size and materal (i.e., it's heat retentiveness); the heat output of your burners; differences between what you call "medium high" and what the recipe writer calls "medium high," thickness and density of ingredients, moisture content of ingredients, etc., etc., etc.
 
So, while it might have taken the recipe writer 12 minutes to brown the chicken properly, it might take you only ten minutes, while taking me 15. If you depend on a timer for tasks like popping rice you will almost always at least scorch it.
 
The hardest cooking lesson to learn is muti-tasking without the aid of timers. But, by the same token, if you multi-task with them you will never improve your skills. So, get rid of the timers and start trusting yourself.
 
This might mean, especially with complicated dishes, that you have to write-down a time line or flow chart (i.e. when X is ready, start Y). But, eventually, you won't even need that help.
 
The worst part of relying on aids like timers isn't that the food sometimes doesn't come out right. Rather, it's that you wind up doing exactly what you have been doing---which is blame yourself when a dish doesn't come out perfectly. Well, my friend, the only fault you suffer from is letting the recipe, rather than the food, tell you what to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2012 at 06:09
Hmm. Timing and heat management, plus a healthy dose of efficient ingredient management is everything in the prep of this dish. The timing relies heavily on the heat used while making the separate components, and vice versa. So, realistically then, how can a recipe for this dish be written?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hoser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2012 at 03:58
Nice job Rod! I'd be all over that gorgeous platter of chickenThumbs Up
Go ahead...play with your food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 March 2012 at 19:14
Thanks Dave, it's a beautiful thing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2012 at 09:08
hey, i have to agree - the original intent of the recipe might be to go for a "lighter-coloured" end product, but to me, that rich, brown carmelised goodness looks like the way to go! wonderful body and depth, in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2012 at 09:21
I'm with you, Ron. I find that last photo to be very appetizing and appealing, and much more interesting than the white-on-white of the original.
 
My point, however, was that Rod thought it was wrong. Or, at least, that he hadn't nailed it perfectly. What I'm trying to do is release him from the tyranny of recipes (particularly cheffy ones), and to rely more on his own idea of what is both visually appealing and flavorsome; that his goal should be producing good tasting food, not slavishly replicating somebody else's idea of what that is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2012 at 09:36
very good point, brook - there are so many ways to skin the cat where cooking is concerned. an example: my focus is generally toward creating a dish that is "true" to it's origin, but as we have discussed with "rustic" or "peasant" food, there are as many "right" ways to do it as there are grandmothers in the village. this has always served me well, but now that i am looking into taking my skills to a bit higher level, there are (and will be) times when i want to duplicate a method or a dish as closely as possible to my source. but even then, i've seen that the more i rely on myself and my goal (great-tasting food), and sound ways to get there (visual and other sensory indicators that things are proceeding along), i rely less on a rigid recipe strictly as written, and more on going with what seems to be the natural flow of the preparation from beginning to end.
 
a bit of a ramble there, but hopefully it makes sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Franklin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2012 at 13:02
I'm glad to see there is still some interest in this subject, and I appreciate all the input.

Now, I didn't get to taste what the TV chef prepared, so really, how would I know what it is supposed to taste like? However, I know way back when, when I saw this show, I was really into paying attention to these type of details and the sweating and light colors and the mention of the sweetness were key things. My original notes are long gone and only the condensed and re-written recipe and my memories remain.

The way it ended up this time was more than edible, and some without knowing any better might find that it tasted good, but with the too browned onions and the too dark creme sherry reduction, much of the sweetness that should be there was seriously compromised.

I do agree that it is sort of tan on tan on tan, with a touch of brown. I guess that's why some might throw parsley on things before service.Smile

I can see getting away from the timers and except for just a few things I don't use them. Rice is one of those things.  But I must ask you, is it possible to KNOW when to stop cooking chicken pieces on the stove top so that you know that by putting them into a 400F oven they will turn out just right AND just a few minutes before the rice is cooked?

And would you throw a pot of rice in the oven with no timer set? If you have an instinct that'll make this kind of timing work, yer a star in my book. My hat is off to you.

I'm sure a disconnect of the rice from the chicken could be made. But without additional time being added, I'm lost as to how.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2012 at 12:31

>And would you throw a pot of rice in the oven with no timer set? If you have an instinct that'll make this kind of timing work, yer a star in my book. My hat is off to you.<

 

Rod, I’ve been thinking about this thread for some time, trying to figure out how best to respond.

Before getting into it, let’s understand a couple of things.

1. Personally, I don’t care whether or not I nail another person’s recipe. To me a recipe is only a guideline. If the dish is totally unfamiliar I will try and follow it pretty closely the first time. After that, I’ll amend and modify to my heart’s content.

     Most of the time I’m amending and modifying from the get-go. About the only time I follow a recipe exactly is when I’m testing it as part of a book review.

     The key here is that we have different orientations as to why, and how, we’re making a particular dish. To put a point on it, and, obviously, ignoring taste factors, everything about your last photo is more appealing to me than the white-on-white of the original. If I were making this dish, I'd be shooting more for what you produced.

 

2. I have enough cooking experience to know, roughly, how long it will take me to complete a particular dish, just from reading the recipe. Let’s say I feel I’ll need 50 minutes for your 5-star chicken. So be it. But if I think it will take me, working at my speed, 70 minutes, so what? Conversely, if I feel it only requires 30 minutes, that’s what I’ll allow, more or less.

     What I’m saying here is that I don’t care how long the recipe-writer took. It will take me as long as it takes. That matters to me only the rare times where I’m locked in to a time frame. So if I figure a recipe will take an hour, but I’ve only got 45 minutes, I just hold off on that recipe for another time.

     If I’m making dinner, this time-estimate includes how long, with multi-tasking, it will take me to get the meal on the table.

 

3. Most of the time---and this may be the key difference between us---I don’t care how long it takes me to prepare dinner. If we decide on certain dishes, and cumulatively they’ll take me three hours, then I allow three hours. I have both the time and inclination to cook how I want. But I recognize that isn’t always true for many people.

All that said, let’s talk about timers. I didn’t mean to imply that I never use them, cuz I do, particularly for things that will be cooking for some time, unattended. Rice is a good example. You’re looking at, more or less, a half hour, and it’s very easy to get side tracked and forget the rice. The key word here is “unattended.” If you look at the coffee barbecue wings recipe I posted elsewhere you’ll note that it, too, takes about a half hour to reduce the sauce. But you are stirring it more or less regularly, which makes a timer totally unnecessary. When it reaches the right consistency it’s done, no matter what the clock says.

By the same token, it would never occur to me to use a timer for the chicken in your recipe. As I noted above, there are too many heat variables involved to depend on a timer. Instead, you should be developing your skills so you can tell when a dish, or a component of it, is done. And all I’m contending is that if you slavishly depend on timers you will never develop those skills. Certainly not to the degree you seem to desire.

With this particular dish, if I were writing a step-by-step, it would be very different than yours.

In the first place, I would do the rice on the range, rather than in the oven. This isn’t a right or wrong thing; I have a system for making rice, and there’s rarely a reason to vary it. An example of varying would be if the raw rice and the chicken were actually being cooked together, in the same pot. But that’s not the case here.

Let’s keep in mind, too, that it’s easy to hold rice. If it gets done before the chicken, no big deal. In fact, there is no reason not to do the rice component of this dish ahead of time; even the day before, and reheat it as necessary.

So I would put up the rice, set the timer, and be done with it.

That’s the only part of this dish that would involve a timer. Browning the chicken is something I depend on experience for, not a clock. How long would it stay in the oven after browning? Until it was done; however long that took. Knowing that the recipe writer took 15 minutes at that temperature gives me a guideline. But the look and feel of the chicken would be the determining factor.

Here’s a thought for you. If you make this as to the original recipe, breaking down a whole chicken, you are faced with a little problem: White meat cooks faster than dark meat. Yet you are using the same 15 minutes (and 12 before that) to cook both the breasts and the thighs. Does that mean that one is overcooked? Or one undercooked? Or does this merely highlight why slavishly depending on timers isn’t the best way to cook?

Balancing time and temperature is hard enough when using ordinary recipes. With chef-written recipes it can get even worse. Professional equipment operates at much higher Btu outputs than does home equipment. And chef’s recipes are rarely tested on home equipment.

So, when a chef says, “cook ten minutes on medium,” what, exactly, does that mean when you try and nail the recipe (your words) at home?

If you think it doesn’t make a difference, try making a gastrique or similar reduction following a chef’s recipe. Typically they’ll say, “reduce over medium-high heat until thick and syrupy, five minutes.” I don’t know about your cooktop, but there’s no way mine is going to make a gastrique in only five minutes, even if I was inclined to work at the highest setting.

But, let’s reverse that idea. The recipe says to reduce until thick and syrupy, five minutes. You turn on your heat, set the timer to five minutes, and walk away. What happens if it only takes three minutes to reduce? At five minutes, you have a burnt-on mess, and a pot to replace.

Obviously I’m overstating a lot of this. More often than not, using a timer will result in a good dish. But it won’t allow you to expand your skills. The fact is, great cooking can be highly intuitive. By removing that factor you often remove the greatness as well.

Oh, yeah. To answer your specific question: yes, there is a way to determine how long the chicken should stay in the oven after browning. That’s what God gave you an index finger for. Works similar to the way we determine the doneness of a steak. Barring that, a remote-probe thermometer is all it takes.

 

 

 

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