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Old Tinned Copper Cookware?

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Hoser View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hoser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 03:26
Originally posted by toomuch toomuch wrote:

Hello all;

New to this list but not to antique copper cookware.  Currently, I am working on a documented field kitchen based on Scappi's Opera field kitchen from 1570.  Many of the pieces are antique, have been made for me or I have made myself, with a lot of help of course. I have tinned several pieces of cookware, it looks a lot easier than it actually is.   It takes a lot of practice to wipe on a smooth coating of tin.  I have made wattle fences for the kitchen and now making willow baskets for storage.
 
If anyone is interested, I can post pictures of my kitchen, it isn't specific to any one country or time, just a lot of pieces I think are neat.  Mostly to have the option to turn the kitchen from viking to 14th century England to Renaissance Spain depending on the theme of the dinner.  There is cast iron cookware, but I try to find pieces that look like period iron cookware. uploads/213/59048_103603933036638_100001610940794_24304_1916435_n1.jpg



Welcome aboard toomuch...that is an amazing bunch of cooking equipment. 
I can only imagine how good that pig tasted!
Go ahead...play with your food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 11:59
So far as tinning, you might want to contact Shay Lelegren, of Hot Dip Tin. Among other things, he's the tinsmith at historic Fort Boonesborough State Park. You can reach him at info@hotdiptin.com. I'm sure he can provide some insights.
 
I do take exception to your statement that cast iron magically appeared in the 1600s. That's merely when the British learned how to do it. And they learned it from the Chinese, who were making cast-iron implements in the 1200s.
 
The golden age of cast iron cookware was, of course, the 18th century. But even then, many items were still made of copper, brass, tinplate, and clay.
 
Generally speaking, anything that should be prepared or stored in a nonreactive container should not be cooked in unlined copper. Mostly that means acidic foods, in terms of reacting (perhaps unsafely) with the copper. But other foods, such as eggs, react in other ways; discoloring for example.
 
Overall, I just feel better if any copperware used for food is tinned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 12:03
Good looking set up, Hoser.
 
Does that fireplit fold for ease of transport and storage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 13:52
Originally posted by HistoricFoodie HistoricFoodie wrote:

So far as tinning, you might want to contact Shay Lelegren, of Hot Dip Tin. Among other things, he's the tinsmith at historic Fort Boonesborough State Park. You can reach him at info@hotdiptin.com. I'm sure he can provide some insights.
 
I do take exception to your statement that cast iron magically appeared in the 1600s. That's merely when the British learned how to do it. And they learned it from the Chinese, who were making cast-iron implements in the 1200s.
 
The golden age of cast iron cookware was, of course, the 18th century. But even then, many items were still made of copper, brass, tinplate, and clay.
 
Generally speaking, anything that should be prepared or stored in a nonreactive container should not be cooked in unlined copper. Mostly that means acidic foods, in terms of reacting (perhaps unsafely) with the copper. But other foods, such as eggs, react in other ways; discoloring for example.
 
Overall, I just feel better if any copperware used for food is tinned.






I am impressed with your field kitchen!  I hope that you do not mind me stealing an idea or two from it. 

The problem with cast iron cooking pots is documenting them: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=139098&sid=bd269da4f23c5f120c72ad3aefb189b6  Apparently even the English were casting iron cannon balls and even cannons almost two hundred years earlier than the Jamestown cauldron.  I would love to find even a shard of a cast iron pot in the HRE that can be dated earlier. 

Due to high shipping costs I am looking for an experienced local person to tin some of these copper pots that need it.  I might have talked a local blacksmith into trying a wrought iron cauldron for me.  We'll see. 

I have heard that egg whites whip up better in copper.  Please tell me more about discoloring. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 14:01
hey, guys, just a side-note here:
 
even though i haven't really got anything to contribute to this, i am really loving the discussion ~ this is one of those topics that i think have a very happy home here at FOTW, and i am grateful to be able to read up on the historical knowledge presented here. it's one of those topics that never occurred to me until it was brought up by karl - looking forward to more ~
If you are a visitor and like what you see, please click here and join the discussions in our community!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toomuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 14:35
Thanks for all the positive comments, historical cooking is a huge passion of mine.  In case anyone is interested, here is more pictures of my kitchen, I use everything so it is not always picture perfect.
 
 
 
Teri
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 15:02
Teri - What all are you cooking in your untinned little copper cauldron?



How much does the clay pipkin hold?  Mine are all small so that they would fit in my suitcases.  Confused  What would you call these spit-trivets? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toomuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 16:00
Right now I am using the copper couldrons both big and small for demo or for boiling water for cleaning.  I don't have the skill to tin the large one myself and professionally tinning it would be cost prohibitive at this time.  The small one is going to the tinners in a couple weeks along with a couple other copper pots not pictured.
 
The pitkin is about 6 cups, I have 4 pitkins ranging from 12 oz to 48 oz. 
 
The spit trivit is a reproduction peice from Scappi's Opera 1570 and the only name written is "quatro pieas"  4-footed.
 
The project for this year, pending budget, is to build a field kitchen similar to Scappi's Opera. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 16:41
"Quatro pieas" sounds good. 



This field kitchen?  The fire "roof" would be really useful here in our rain forest. 



I am beginning to think that I would like to play with something like this too.  This might be what some of the Landsknecht wood cuts are trying to show (with a fancier top band and bail).   The problem is that the better my field kitchen gets the more impossible it would be to transport anywhere to use and show off.  Ermm






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toomuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2012 at 17:33
Oh the kitchen fills up a suv and 5x8 trailer to haul it from event to event.  It ends up only being used 2 or 3 times a year because of fire restrictions.  Each time though, it is very special.
Teri



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2012 at 14:30


This is what the Swedish Landsknechts are using.





These are some Russian reenactors. 

Ground fires are not restricted here since we live in a rain forest. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2012 at 11:42


A "viking age" brass(?) pot on display in the Sunnmore Museum, Alesund, Norway. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2013 at 14:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2013 at 14:40
   WOW, great thread Karl!  Thanks for bringing this one back up!
Enjoy The Food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2013 at 15:22
Originally posted by gonefishin gonefishin wrote:

   WOW, great thread Karl!  Thanks for bringing this one back up!


I am glad that you enjoyed it.  This thread helped bring copperware back to my attention:  http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/281325/  and this is a good place for me to cache' documentation.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gonefishin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2013 at 17:40
    This stuff is just beautiful!  I would love to get a few pieces, but I don't have the property to do it right now.  Hopefully, when we move we may find something better suited for this. 

  Nice stuff guys!
Enjoy The Food!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toomuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2013 at 17:42
 looking at the fire box, really neat idea.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2013 at 13:41
Originally posted by toomuch toomuch wrote:

 looking at the fire box, really neat idea.  

Those clever Russians.  Yes, a raised firebox would be much easier on the back and knees.  A kitchen like this would not hurt my back, knees, or feelings much either:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2014 at 13:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2014 at 13:15
Looks like a good time!
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