Turnin' out sausage
Printed From: Foods of the World Forum
Category: Other Food-Related Topics
Forum Name: Curing of Meats, Charcuterie and Smokehouse Specialties
Forum Discription: From basic sausages and smoked bacon to specialised meat products such as cured hams or other charcuterie, this is the place to discus it!
URL: http://foodsoftheworld.ActiveBoards.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=3341
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 19:44
Topic: Turnin' out sausage
Posted By: gonefishin
Subject: Turnin' out sausage
Date Posted: 15 March 2013 at 08:37
|
Hello All! I know that we've got some pretty good sausage makers here, as well as some very good cooks with discerning palates. While I normally cook, bake, cure & Smoke...my brother usually makes the sausage. I have got no complaints at all because 1) I certainly don't need another thing to do and 2)He's really become quite good at it. He has really nailed down his Italian sausage as well as a couple of others. I normally stay out of the sausage making, as he's doing fine, only giving my opinion on taste...and things to try. Some things that have brought about some nice subtle different and complexity are keeping some spices whole, while crushing a percentage with a mortar and pestle...this does give a nice variance to the flavors that you get in the sausage. Another one, on the subject of spices, is to take a small percentage of the overall spices used and lightly toast them. Again, this leads to just small variance in flavor complexity without adding to the number of ingredients. I think my brother gets a kick out of the next one, he says that it is my answer to everything. For that little bit of liquid that you need to add, use a shellfish, fish, or crawfish stock. I put anchovy paste in so many things that are red it isn't funny. Not much, just a bit. Then, in everything else I'll commonly use a shellfish or fish stock...it often adds that element that brings all the flavors together in dishes, and it works beautifully in sausage. I know that he has learned many things during his time making sausage, but he tells me and I think I only half listen or half understand...as I am not a sausage maker. Saying all that...we are both inexperienced in the totality of sausage making. Take this latest venture for instance, making andouille. We're trying to go for something on the lines of http://www.cajunsausage.com/" rel="nofollow - Jacobs , http://www.wjsmokehouse.com/" rel="nofollow - Wayne Jacobs , or in that style. It's just a very simple sausage seasoned with garlic, salt, cayenne...then smoked. While he has made the smaller ground andouille, heavier spiced and in small casing...this andouille is quite a different animal. This first batch we just cut it into cubes and stuffed it in beef middle collagen casings. I know that my brother complained about the collagen casings. He normally uses regular natural casing for his smaller sausages, but we are unsure about what size to get for the large andouille. We're going to see how this first batch turns out, as we just cubed it and stuffed it (rather than grind). For stuffing these large casings, we're going to have to get some larger funnels to do the job as well. This first batch are air drying and I'll probably smoke them tomorrow. All in all, they're looking fine so far...but this is just round one into making a larger sausage. Smoking wood preference would be pecan wood, but I don't have any. I'm going to go with white oak for the smoke. If anyone has any advice on the sausage or the parts...I'd love to hear your opinions. Oh, there's some venison sticks in the pic below as well. Thanks for listening!     ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Replies:
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 15 March 2013 at 08:44
I've never made andouille, so I don't have much advice - but good grief, that sure looks good! 
I can just imagine how that would enhance so many cajun and creole dishes - and I'm willing to bet that it will be pretty darn good on its own, too!
I enjoyed reading your tips and tweaks for flavouring sausage, Dan - often, it only take a very subtle thing to kick a good product up into the territory of "outstanding...." ------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 15 March 2013 at 08:55
|
Not just cajun and creole dishes, Ron. Andouille goes well with a whole slew of dishes. You may remember, for instance, that I used it in the barley & sausage soup.
You can easily sub it in any recipe calling for Italian sausage as well.
|
Posted By: Margi Cintrano
Date Posted: 15 March 2013 at 10:17
|
Dan,
These sausages look awesome !
Thanks for sharing,
Marge. ------------- Volamos a Mediterraneo, un paraiso que conquista su gente u su cocina. |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 15 March 2013 at 14:35
Absolutely Brook! and I did notice that in your soup recipe...yum! Thanks for the kind words Tas and Margi! ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
HistoricFoodie wrote:Posted By: Hoser
Date Posted: 16 March 2013 at 00:28
|
First things first Dan....just wanted to make sure you used some cure #1 in your sausage mix if you're going to smoke it....for safety's sake it's just too dangerous to do it without.
That's like the "prime directive" of sausage making..Any sausage that will be smoked must be cured. On casing size...I normally use a 38-42 mm casing when I make kielbasa, so you may want to use that if you want a large sausage. If you have a chance, stop by my http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/sausage-making-for-the-beginner_topic2903.html" rel="nofollow - "sausage making for beginners" thread in the charcuterie forum and you'll find most of the basics outlined there. Also feel free to PM any time if you have questions.
------------- Go ahead...play with your food! |
Posted By: africanmeat
Date Posted: 16 March 2013 at 04:40
|
The Sausages look great .Hoser is right but i am sure you and your brother know that . i love slicing few slices from the andouille sausage fry it with onion and pour the eggs over it . man that's a great way to start a day . well done ------------- Ahron |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 16 March 2013 at 08:31
|
Thanks for the kinds words Ahron and Hoser! I didn't list prague powder in the list of ingredients, but I was just hitting on the list of seasonings used. Hoser, this type of andouille is larger than a smoked polish type sausage, it's about the size of a small summer sausage. I did read your sausage making for beginners, helpful advice...but it's a locked thread, which is why I asked about the natural casing size here. Thanks! ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 16 March 2013 at 14:19
|
All finished! First off, the venison sticks turned out really nice. My brother mixed up half of them with a spice blend that he used in some HotLinks of his. There was very minimal pork used in this mixture and it worked out quite well. So half of them were just a salt and smoke mixture. These were really good, they showcased the venison and smoke nicely. I could actually see making these featuring White Oak, Hickory and a Cherry Blend. The more I cook, the less ingredients I want to use...just find the proper methods. For the Andouille sausage we used about a 1" chunk rather than a grind. We are planning on getting a 10mm grinding plate for the next batch of andouille. Going with a large grind will fix a few problems we ran into with stuffing the sausage and the casings. None of the problems were huge, and taste was very good beside...but the grind would fix a few things that need to be fixed. The flavors were actually really good. Maybe we could have gone with a little more cayenne, but it wasn't needed. We had prepared this sausage for smoking within a four hour time period. We had discussed before hand preparing it for a longer and lower method of smoking, but after tasting the product I wouldn't change anything with the methods. It turned out a wonderful balance of pork flavor and Smoke and just a little bit of spice. Flavor wise, this was pretty much right where I was hoping to be...in the style of Jacob's, Wayne Jacobs, Cochon type "Craft" Andouille. By "craft" Andouille I mean something that is done as a traditional Southern Andouille Sausage rather than a Northern finer grind heavily spiced andouille that is often served on a sausage or hotdog bun. Don't get me wrong, I love a heavily spiced finer ground andouille on a bun...but this is a little different animal. We've got a few things to fix for sure...but I think this was pretty successful. Now we just need to get some crawfish! *coming soon* Crawfish and Andouille boil! Some more pictures were added to the original post... Take care all, Dan ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 16 March 2013 at 15:01
|
on getting a 100mm grinding plate
Dan, do you have a source for plates? I've been trying to find a larger one, to no avail.
|
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 16 March 2013 at 21:36
Hi Brook! As you can probably guess, I'm not looking to get a 100mm grinding plate...a 10mm will do just fine. Have a look at http://www.westonsupply.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=5&search=plates&show=120&page=1" rel="nofollow - Weston Supply site . ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: MarkR
Date Posted: 17 March 2013 at 04:28
Brook, I recommend you call them. They have a lot more stuff that is not on the website. They are great to work with! ------------- Mark R |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 07:04
|
So, guys, is there a way to determine the grinder # size I need?
I have a Tasin grinder, that I got years ago from either Cabellas or Bass Pro Shops. I forget which.. Other than the company number, it's not identified by any standard coding I can find. Even the plates are merely called fine, medium, and coarse.
I notice that the Weston machines designed for home use seem to be #8. But I don't think I can count on that.
Any suggestions?
|
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 07:27
|
Brook - if you're talking about a manual grinder, it's hard to do better than a Porkert; they should be available for peanuts via Ebay and the usual websites. It's very hard to beat that Old World, Eastern European craftsmanship. The Weston manual grinder is a modern version of the Porkerts, using the same molds; however, my understanding after doing quite a bit of reading is that they are not of the same quality, with the finish coming off, parts not fitting as well etc. I could be wrong about this, but that's my understanding - especially with the newer ones from China.
If yo're tlaking about electric-driven grinders for a Kitchen-Aid etc., I am clueless!  ------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 07:33
|
Ron, I think you misunderstood my need.
I'm not looking for a new grinder---the Tasin has done me fine for more than 15 years. What I'm looking for is a plate with larger holes.
But plates seem to be sized to what appear to be standard machine sizes. So it's not enough to say I need a 10 mm plate. I have to specify 10 mm for a #X plate.
Or am I misinterpreting the whole system?
|
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 08:03
|
whoops - I gotcha now ~
It is possible that the Tasin has some sort of proprietary design for their plates, but I would hope not; chances are that there is something out there for you, either 10mm or the "standard measurement" equivalent.
This might be a good palce to start:
http://www.sausagemaker.com/grinderaccessories.aspx" rel="nofollow - http://www.sausagemaker.com/grinderaccessories.aspx
------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 08:07
|
Okay. Just did what I should have done in the first place and remember that google is my friend.
The One Stop Jerky Shop sells my machine. What's more, they list, in the desciption, details that never came with it when I bought it.
Turns out it's a #12 machine, and it takes #10/12 plates.
What my paperwork indicated as fine, medium, and coarse blades actually are:
1/8 inch (3 mm)
5/32 inch (4 mm)
3/8 inch (10 mm)
The 10 mm I have, however, doesn't have round holes. Instead they are sort of elongated teardrops. This produces a rather unique, chunky kind of grind. I imagine it would be exactly what Dan needs for the anduille; more or less solid pieces.
So, now that I know what I need, I can go back to the Weston site and order it.
Yay, team!
|
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 08:09
|
------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 08:10
|
Ron, our posts must have crossed.
Sausage Maker was the first place I ever checked. They do not, for some reason, list replacement plates in their catalogs.
I never understood why, considering how many used machines are available that only have the installed plate and no other accessories. But I don't make their marketing decisions.
|
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 08:18
|
I was able to get two plates from there recently, but that was for a Porkert; might be different for yours. Here's a direct link to what they have available:
------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 08:34
Glad ya figured it out Brook! Let us know what you end up ordering and where you plan to use it. That teardrop 10mm plate sounds interesting, I'll have to look into that a little more, thanks! Dan ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 09:21
|
Ron: Thanks for that link. Odd: none of that stuff is listed in their paper catalog.
Dan: I've never seen anything like it. I notice that Sausage Maker, Jerky Shop, and Weston all offer 10mms with round holes. But not that teardrop.
I wonder if it's a Taiwanese thing? Or maybe they just made them for a short while?
It's hard to tell from the pix at the Jerky Shop site, but all three of the plates shown seem to have round holes.
What size plates does your machine use? I'd be happy to send you this one to play with.
|
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 09:51
|
Well, Brook - I guess the natural question would be:
What are you going to do for your returning-to-sausage project? ------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 12:34
| Don't push it, Ron. Let's figure out the Mesopotamian bread first. Then I'll think about other major projects. |
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 12:41
I'm thinking that the Mesopotamian barley bread would go great with some sort of beef or lamb sausage...yum yum ~ 
Whaddaya think, Dan?  ------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 12:51
|
Ron, I think lamb sausage would be an ideal mating. But let's see, in order to make it I first:
1. Have to order the new plate.
2. Order the casings (even hog isn't available locally, let alone lamb).
3. Build a drying/curing cabinet.
4. Maybe pick up a fridge dedicated to charcuterie.
5. Hope I can find lamb at an affordible price.
And I'm sure there's a lot more I'm not thinking of.
It's been 30 years since I made any sort of sausage. And I suspect it is not like riding a bike.
|
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 12:56
|
it's easy - you'll be fine when you get around to it ~
for now, to get back into the groove, so to speak, i wouldn't worry too much about steps 3 and 4. both are nice extras, but certainly not necessary, with a little bit of careful management ~  ------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 13:07
| Yeah, but anything worth doing is worth overdoing, donchathink? |
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 13:11
|
Agreed! ------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 18:00
Hi Brook, Thanks much for the offer, but we don't have the same size plates. You have the 2 3/4", #12 and we have a 2 1/2" #8 Grinder. Thanks though...it does sound neat. ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 18:03
a lamb sausage does sound good! Brook, what plates do you have now? You aren't going to need anything too large for a regular lamb sausage. ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: HistoricFoodie
Date Posted: 18 March 2013 at 18:51
|
Dan, I've got a 3 mm (1/8 inch), a 4 mm (5/32 inch) and that strange teardrop.
In the past, even the 4 mm was too fine, and the texture of the sausage suffered. I'm thinking I need something in the 1/4 inch or 5/16 range.
|
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 25 October 2013 at 12:36
Okay, we are getting set to make another batch of "craft" andouille, Texas hot links...and a slim jim version of each as well. Oh, about 30+ lbs of bacon too  Does anyone have some good research links for slim jims? I've got ideas in my head, but would like to gather some thoughts and then proceed. While my brother and I don't use any nitrates in any of our fresh or smoked sausages...I am going to use it in the slim jims. The slim jims are a different animal all together. As I just came back from the fridge and got a nice beef stick, I'm looking for something of a longer smoke and drier than regular beef sticks/venison sticks that we've made before. These are very good...but were looking to do something drier/smokier...closer to a slim jim rather than beef stick. thanks guys and gals! ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: MarkR
Date Posted: 25 October 2013 at 13:20
|
Dan I use beef middles (natural) for my thick Andouille, works nicely. Another source for grinder parts, they have most everything. http://www.nbsparts.com/meat-grinders/ ------------- Mark R |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 25 October 2013 at 17:58
Hi Mark! For fresh sausages we use natural hog casing (Italian, brat, texas Hot links, Polish, etc), for the andouille we like the larger casings. The last time we got natural middles (2 1/3- 2 3/8) they varied much more than the specified variance...they were all over the place! I have heard that some products vary more than others. So, the next time we got the thin (edible/strand collagen casings) 2+" collagen casings and they worked fine. If the natural middles are a little over 2 1/3", do you still make them about 18" long? I know I've had the casing rip while smoking when they're this large, where the strand collagen hold up. I'd love to hear your experiences (or others...) Thanks, Dan ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 25 October 2013 at 18:14
|
Slim Jims I've done a bit of looking and I seem to be gravitating toward the type of recipe in http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?s=69a64506ed7c902b5b35287e620b6cff&p=1713757&postcount=7 - this thread here . It has the slim jim modified smoking temperatures that I was looking for. I'm not saying this will get me the product that I have in mind...but it seems as if it may. The http://www.nytimes.com/recipes/1884/the-original-slim-jim.html - Original Slim Jim recipe has many similarities in method as well. Sure would be nice if I had a Bbq Guru on my FatBoy!  Oh, has anyone used Fermento? I believe I'm going to order some and give it a try in the slim jim recipe ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: MarkR
Date Posted: 26 October 2013 at 06:23
|
Dan the beef middles I got from Butcher and Packer were all over the place. I now get them from Sausagemaker and the are pretty consistent. I make mine about 15" in small batches cause that's all the height inside my watt burner. If I'm making larger batches I'll make them 18" and use the bigger smoker. Usually use tangerine or grapefruit wood. For fresh andouille I use 32-35mm selects (hog) from Butcher and Packer. Strange they are real consistent with hog but not with beef. ??? I've made peperoni but not snack stick size, have to get on that I love them. I use an IQue on my big offset and my Weber, I'm real happy with it. It's simple. I sometimes use Fermento but I prefer Bactofirm F-LC in my summer sausage, much more pronounced "tang". But it might be too much for snack sticks, fermento or powdered buttermilk might be betta. Butter milk gives about the same result but it's a lot less expensive. If you try it with F-LC you'll have to add another step to allow them time to ferment. 24 hours at 95° and 90% humidity. I adapted my watt burner for this. ------------- Mark R |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 26 October 2013 at 08:29
This is the same experience we had. When using the natural hog casings all is good, then the middles were very inconsistent.
I haven't looked int the IQue, only the Bbq guru...I'll check out the IQue too....thanks
Thanks for the advice on the Fermento and Bactofirm. I think I'll go with the more subtle flavor on this batch. I was thinking that I would stay away from the powdered buttermilk, for this slim jim recipe, because of the desired dryness in the final product. It's my experience, with powdered milk additives in sausages, that they act as a binder and help with moisture retention...something that's not desirable in this recipe (I'm just thinking out loud here). Dan ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: MarkR
Date Posted: 26 October 2013 at 08:40
|
Dan, Fermento is made from cultured skim milk, dried. It will retain moisture also. I think it has a little more tang than the buttermilk.
------------- Mark R |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 26 October 2013 at 08:52
So much for that thought. I think we'll skip this step altogether. Proceed to get a good recipe down that produces results like we want. Then, after we get it down, we can choose to tweak the recipe. First, foremost...I want a dry, smokey stick with good flavor and texture. thanks Mark! Dan ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: MarkR
Date Posted: 26 October 2013 at 09:23
|
Dan, I looked at both of the recipes (links) you posted earlier, they both use Bactofirm. The lack moisture retention might be the reason. ------------- Mark R |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 26 October 2013 at 09:57
|
Thanks for all the help!
------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: gonefishin
Date Posted: 19 October 2014 at 08:01
|
Well, I haven't been updating this thread lately. In this time we've (my brother and I) have made a number of sausages, including Polish, andouille, hot links, beef sticks...about 60 lbs of bacon, in three batches...and now some italian sausage. My brother had really gotten the Italian sausage recipe down over the years. But the quality of meat has been progressively been going downhill. Even from places that had mediocre consistency...they fell down a few notches in providing flavor. Hence, when the flavor of your meat goes down...you have to compensate with spices. In our thinking...sausages is about the meat, just enough of a blend of spices and smoke to give you a product you're looking for. The better quality the meat...the better the sausage...but you've got to alter the spices, recipe, according to the meat you're getting. I've been telling him to go to Chenoa meat locker for some time now...he finally went Italian Sausage             Oh, here's a picture of some of the bacon, on the slicer my brother got (thanks to a nice gentlemen at Smoked-Meat forum)  g'day all! ------------- Enjoy The Food! |
Posted By: TasunkaWitko
Date Posted: 05 December 2014 at 17:40
|
Both the bacon and the sausage look great, Dan! Have you got recipes for them? ------------- If you are a visitor and like what you see, please http://foodsoftheworld.activeboards.net/registration_rules.asp?FID=0" rel="nofollow - click here and join the discussions in our community! |