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Schwarzwälder Eintopf - Discussion

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TasunkaWitko View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 May 2011 at 16:01

Schwarzwälder Eintopf
Black Forest Stew
 
Marinade:

• 1 cup chopped onions
• 1/2 cup chopped carrot
• 1/2 cup chopped celery
• 1 clove garlic, minced
• 2 whole cloves
• 1/4 tsp. rosemary
• 1/4 tsp. thyme
• 1 bay leaf
• 6 lingonberries (or cranberries)
• 5 peppercorns
• 1 Tbsp. chopped parsley
• 1/2 tsp. salt
• 3 cups dry, red wine
• 1/4 cup red wine vinegar
• 1/2 cup vegetable oil
 
Stew:
 
• 3 lbs. venison stew meat
• 1/2 tsp. marjoram
• 1/4 cup butter or margarine
• 1 cup chopped onions
• 1/4 cup flour
• 1 cup beef broth
• 1/4 tsp. pepper
• 1 cup sour cream
 
Place marinade ingredients into a 2-quart saucepan. Bring marinade to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer 10 minutes. Cool.
 
Place venison and marjoram in a large casserole dish. Pour cooled marinade over meat. Cover and refrigerate 24 hours, stirring occasionally. Drain meat, reserving marinade. Pat meat dry.
 
In a large saucepan melt butter. When hot, add the meat; brown, stirring to prevent burning. Remove meat and brown remaining 1 cup onions. Stir in flour; mix until well-blended. Add broth and 2 cups reserved marinade. Add pepper.
 
Bring stew to a boil, stirring until slightly thickened. Add meat, cover and simmer about 1 hour, until meat is tender. Skim off fat. Add sour cream and heat through.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 11:50
(2 years later)
 
Why haven't I tried this???
 
I don't know ~ but the only thing I'm really missing at the moment is a dry, red wine, and it is easy to fix that.
 
Any suggestions for a dry, red wine that would be "plausible" in Germany? My usual range of choices is at the "economical" end of the wine selection in the aisle of a grocery store, using the common types that would normally be found. Such would be the wine I would probably most likely be forced to go with; having said that, I'd also appreciate a suggestion for a true German or European wine that would be good for this.
 
Also, I'd like to solicit opinions on another issue.
 
Looking at the instructions, should the end product contain meat and onions only (along with the associated ingredients for the "second stage" of preparation)? Or, when reserving the marinade, would it be more correct to strain and also reserve the vegetables, to be added back in with the two cups of reserved marinade?
 
I'm guessing that there might be some latitude here, and that it would be "fine" to do it either way; however, I'd like to "do it right, if I can. Instinct tells me that the intent of the recipe is to strain the marinade and discard the solids, but it seems to be a waste of the vegetables; then again, I guess once you have their flavour, they might have served their purpose, as far as this recipe is concerned?
 
Opinions are welcome - thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 12:50
Just guessing, Ron, but it seems to me with the rosemary and thyme in the marinade there's no need for the marjoram, which will be overpowered by the other two.

My inclination would be to add the veggies back in with the marinade in order to extract as much of their flavor as possible. Then you could use your immersion blender to create a sauce, if desired. Although the flavors will have been cooked out, the pureed veggies add more body to the sauce.

I'd do that before adding the sour cream, and cook it down to desired consistency. Then add the sour cream.

Sounds like a great winter dish.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 13:35

Brook - I've used that concept before in my Manzo Brasato alla Lombarda:

 
 
 
 
It seemed to work well both times, especially when adding body to the sauce; this recipe being a thickened stew, it should also work well. Chances are, I will also add cubed potatoes (kartoffeln) or dumplings (spätzle).
 
As for the wine, cabernet sauvignon seems to be the obvious choice, but I was hoping for some other options.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 14:09
I'm not a winehead, Ron. Far as I'm concerned there are only two kinds of wine in the world: those you like and those you don't.

But I tend to associate Germany with whites; most often whites on the sweetish side.

For any stew of this kind I just use cabernet sauvignon. But Redwood Creek cab has become our "house" red. So there might be other choices that make more sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 14:21
Originally posted by Brook Brook wrote:

I'm not a winehead, Ron.
 
Well why not?
 
LOL - just kidding - I'm clueless as well, and like you, when I think of German wines, I think of the sweeter, white wines, so red wine was a mystery to me.
 
But, since I am always trying to get as close to the "real experience" as is practicable, I thought I'd troll around a little for ideas for a "plausible" red wine in German cooking that would be available to me. Cabernet sauvignon seems like a natural choice and I will probably go with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 15:14
The black forest region of Germany is known for growing Pinot Noir grapes, and is relatively close to the French Alsace wine region though that is primarily white wines. That's about my extent of wine knowledge. Maybe try to find a Pinot Noir from either region?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 15:18
That settles it for me, Mike ~ thank you for checking!
 
Going with that, pinot noir would be a natural choice ~ plus, it is a wine that I happen to like a lot. I'll see what I can find, and may perhaps get two bottles - one for the stew, one for the table.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 15:31
Three bottles, Ron, cuz while the stew cooks you have to keep checking the wine to assure it hasn't gone bad.

Seriously, while I like pinot noir too, I wonder if it wouldn't be too fruity to go with the venison?

When we were in Winston-Salem a year ago I had a braised venison dish. The chef recommended a Petit Shiraz, and it was a perfect compliment to the dish. Maybe think in those terms?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 15:48
Brook - in this case, the Pinot Noir might be the way to go. The Alsace region is also home to the origins of carbonnade du bœuf, which is similar to carbonade flamande and its sweet/spicy profile. Given that, it could fit right in with the culinary proclivities of the Black Forest region - whenever I think of the area, I think of sweet things, so perhaps? It maes perfect sense when you consider that the quintessential foods of a region are based on the quintessential, available products in a region.
 
Interestingly, I wasn't able to find much out about the dish until I googled the English translation ("Black Forest Stew"), making me wonder if this dish isn't perhaps known by some other name in Germany. I will consult my FotW and Culinaria volumes to see if there is any further information.
 
In any case, some reseach on that would make good fodder for the accompanying pictorial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 15:49
When all else fails, read the instructions.

I just did a search, using "German Red Wines" as the parameters. An incredible number of hits.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 16:14
Here we go - this region seems to over-lay the black forest almost perfectly:
 
 
The Trollinger grape seems to be the most well-known around there, so I guess I can try to find a wine made from that.
 
 
 
The actual wine that I should be getting is probably here:
 
 
But it was all starting to run together for me, so who knows. I do see Pinot Noir mentioned in association with the same region, but a wine from the Trollinger grape (is there an actual Trollinger wine?) might be a little "closer to home," if I can find it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Effigy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sepeptember 2013 at 17:06
You could try one of these.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sepeptember 2013 at 12:08
Originally posted by Effigy Effigy wrote:

You could try one of these.
 
Actually not a bad idea, Anne - New Zealand definitely has great things to offer where wine is concerned, and I'm willing to bet I couldn't go wrong if I chose one.
 
Brook, your suggestion of a shiraz might be just the ticket - I've been doing a little reading and googling, and have come to discover that it's pretty dang hard to find a a recipe for Black Forest Stew where an effort was made to preserve authenticity. Nearly every recipe calls for "red wine," with many going so far as to say, "dry, white wine." The problem is that these recipes seem to suffer from other quirks that lead me to believe if that is truly the required ingredient, or if it is there "just because." 
However, I did come across one source that uses a recipe from a chef who grew up in the Black Forest of Germany, and this chef (a Walter Steib) has a recipe for venison stew. There are some elements of the recipe that seem to be adapted or "chefy" to me, but one thing that struck me is that the author used a syrah (shiraz) wine; that being the case, I may end up ultimately using the same.
 
Then again, that is simply the interpretation of the guy who made the dish, so who knows. It's worthy of note that along with the Trollinger, another grape that is widely grown in the area for red wine is the spätburgunder, which as far as I can tell is Germany's name for pinot noir.
 
I suspect that I am going in circles over something that might not even be important, so I have consulted a friend who lives in Stuttgart, Germany, which is in the area, and will see if he has any ideas. I am committed to trying this recipe, and am looking to do it justice ~ we shall see!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sepeptember 2013 at 22:47
When it comes to German peasant food, Walter Staib is very good. He grew up with it, and it's a sub-speciality of his. In the absence of any more definative sources, I'd go with him on this one. 

His real expertise actually is in, of all things, Carribean food. He worked down in the islands for many years, before being named as head chef at City Tavern, in Philadelphia. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Effigy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sepeptember 2013 at 23:13
Thinking about this after a wee break...
I think that an approximation of wine from the general area would be just fine, you are after-all going to cook it with aromatics and vinegar. I honestly think that any subtelties in the wine will be lost in the cooking.
Of more importance would be what your animal had been eating for the last few weeks of its life - did its' forage closely match the forage of a Black Forest Deer? And is it even the same species?
Something to consider if you truly want to re-create this exactly. Evil Smile
FWIW - Germany has Roe and Red Deer.

I found this little snippet...

German Game: Roe Deer

In Germany we have a small relative of the red deer which is called roe deer and does not occure in America. Red deer is practically the same as wapiti and used to live almost everywhere in Germany. But nowadays red deer ist restricted to certain areas because it does much damage to agriculture and sylviculture. If red deer appears outside these areas hunters has to shoot it unless it is a stag with the desired form of antlers. 

 A roe buck and a doe

The roe deer looks much like a smaller version of red deer but in fact - at least according to  the zoological systematic - it is closer related to the elk because like the latter it belongs to the telemetacarpalia and the first to the plesometacarpalia.     

Roe deer is the most common game for german hunters, only in the last years closely followed by boar. Only few hunters here can affort hunting on red deer, so roe deer ist sort of substititution for it. The roe deer is sometimes called "poor man's deer" an still some hunters are very proud if they have roebucks with big trophies in their hunting grounds.

In the former German hunting laws there used to be strict rules about shooting roe deer much like the rules for red deer, trying to produce strong trophies by preserving stags with the desired form of the antlers. Anyway, in the meantime one found out that in the case of the roe deer - unlike with the red deer -  the quality of the antlers does not much depend from  genetic endowments but merely from nourishment and other vital circumstances.

Because the roe deer looks much like a small version of the red deer many people - esp. in urban areas - believe that it was the wife of the latter. As a matter of fact, the roe deer is a species of its own.  An interesting detail of its reproduction is the fact that the fertilized ovum rests for a couple of months in the uterus of the doe (the female roe) until it starts to grow. This explains the fact that the rutting season of the roe deer is by late july and early august and the fawns ar born in may of june althozgh according to its size the roe should gestate for only six months.

Obviously this serves to shift the rutting period to summer. So after the exhausting rutting season the roe buck has enough time to recover before the winter comes with cold and shortage of food. Red deer ruts in fall and although the stags are much bigger than roe bucks they often don't survive the winter because they had not enough time to recover from the stress and exhausting rut.

German hunters traditionally shoot big game during the rutting season and although roe deer counts to the small game it is a treated a bit like it was big game - "poor man's red deer" you see...  

Unlike the hunters many modern German state forest rangers don't like roe deer very much. They consider it to be a sort of varmint ("small red forest eater") because it does much damage to the woods by nibbling off buds and sprouts of young trees. The trees don't die from this but tend to not grow properly and only deliver lumber instead of valuable timber.

By the way, Bambi the young white tail buck from the nice Disney movie originally was a roe deer.  The plot for the movie was taken from the novel "Bambi" by the Austrian author Felix Salten, which tells the story of a young roe buck. 

Source: http://heartofgermany.blogspot.co.nz/2009/12/german-game-roe-deer.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sepeptember 2013 at 09:09
Brook - I'm definitely going to learn more about Walter Staib, if I can. As of now, I don't know anything other than what was in the article that I read:
 
 
Having said that, I am pretty impressed as he seems like "the genuine article." Similarly, the more I learned more about Wolfgang Puck, and his roots, the more I came to be impressed and develop quite a bit of respect for him, as well.
 
Anne - awesome research! I love it in that it not only discusses German hunting traditions, but also goes well into the particulars of the deer that they hunt. When I eventually do the pictorial for this, I will indeed be using some of that!
 
As for the wine, I've decided that, as Anne said, the subtleties of any wine are going to be lost in the seasonings etc. What I will do is try to simply find a German red wine, and failing that, I will flip a coin between pinot noir (which is grown in the Black Forest region under the name spätburgunder) and syrah (shiraz), which doesn't seem to be grown in the Black Forest region, but is grown not too far away over the border in France. I'm guessing that either would be a good choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sepeptember 2013 at 09:27
Ron, I don't know if your affiliate carries it, but Walter has a PBS series called "A Taste of History." In it he covers colonial cooking as it's practiced at City Tavern.

City Tavern, itself, is one of the oldest dining establishments in America, dating back to the 18th century. All the founding fathers ate there, at one time or another. Today it operates the same way; hearth cooking, period type cookware, and so forth. In fact, my blacksmith built some of the spiders he cooks with.

I do have some issues with him, but they're the sort of thing only another food historian of the period would worry about. For most people, his show, and book, serve as an incredible introduction to the foodways of British colonial America and the early days of the Republic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TasunkaWitko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sepeptember 2013 at 10:30
I'll see if we get that locally, Brook - it sounds like a good show to watch.
 
A little digging around led me to Mr. Staib's website, so I figured why not? - and sent an email inquiry asking for direction in wine choice. We shall see what comes of it!
 
Turning to the rest of the recipe, I am finding myself in agreement with you, Brook, about the abundance of herbs in the recipe. If memory serves, this recipe came from a UK-published book on German cuisine, so I expect that it is reasonably "plausible;" however, when thinking of traditional, "grandmother cooking,' I cannot help but wonder if all of those ingredients would be "traditional." Please bear with me as I brainstorm:
 
I can see the mirepoix, for sure - garlic (one clove) possibly, bay leaves definitely. My limited knowledge of the area suggests that currants might be more "German" than lingonberries, but I could easily be wrong - in any case, I have no whole berries for either, but could get preserves for both and might be able to get currant berries. The marjoram and rosemary are not really known to me as "German" ingredients, but who am I to say? I honestly don't know. The rest of the ingredients, including thyme, parsley and cloves, all look "familiar" to me in relation to other German recipes I've seen.
 
Based on this, I might adjust the ingredients a bit, but not much, if at all..... I'll see if I can compare it to some other traditional recipes of the region.
 
Yes, people - I DO sit up at night thinking about these things! Confused
 
Two cool, grey days in a row - I think it's time to start cooking things like this!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HistoricFoodie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sepeptember 2013 at 00:17
Ron, most supermarkets carry dried currents. Look for them where they stock the raisins.

If you soak them, they reconstitute. Not as fully as fresh fruit, but near enough as to make no never mind in a dish like this. I like using creme de cassis as the liquid, to intensify the current flavors. But anything will do. 

Re: Cranberries. More and more, as I realize how versitile they are, and how many dishes use them, I stock up on fresh berries around Thanksgiving, and keep them in the freezer. That way I always  have some on hand. 
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