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Sour-dough Starter |
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TasunkaWitko
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Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: Chinook, MT Status: Offline Points: 9389 |
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Topic: Sour-dough StarterPosted: 01 May 2010 at 11:38 |
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From The Little House Cookbook, by Barbara M. Walker - 1979
alright, i've got a batch of this starter going. i followed the instructions above, with one exception; i added a dollop of honey to help with fermentation, which would have been available at the time and place. here's how it went down:
after talking to john, there was a slight variation of the original method posted above that i wanted to try. john mentioned using potato flakes in the starter, which would do a good job of reproducing the "potato water" that many starters used, and would also give it a real, old-time sourdough taste, evoking images of old san francisco and alaska in their gold-mining heydays. with that in mind, i decided to give it a shot. also, i will add a dollop of honey to give the yeasties something to feed on.
i started this project in the evening just before i turned in for the night. here's the goods, other than some spring water from a spring just a couple of miles south of town:
![]() the first thing i did was add that dollop of honey; no real measurement here, just a little to provide a sugar to feed on:
![]() then, i added 1 cup of the spring water, which i had heated to about 100 degrees.
![]() anywhere between 98 or 110 or so should be good, but i wouldn't go over 112 or below 95, myself.
i then added 1/4 cup of potato flakes:
![]() i was at first concerned about a few "extra ingredients" that i saw on the label, but after discussing them with john, who knows a few things about food additives, he assured me that they are in very tiny trace amounts and also that they shouldn't affect anything. they are added mostly to keep them from clumping.
after this came 1 cup of unbleached AP flour:
![]() i considered the idea of using bread flour, but since i am in new territory here, and the recipe said AP, i used AP.
we used a butter knife to stir the mixture around into a batter:
![]() here's what it looked like when it was ready:
![]() i then put the lid on loosely so that fermentation gasses could escape and a rubber band around the container right at the level where the batter was in order to give a person an indication of whether it is rising and when it will be doubled in size.:
![]() the container i am using this time is about a quart-and-a-half and originally held mixed nuts; it has been empty and for quite a while and re-washed several times - smelled completely neutral to me.
after this, i put the container in the turned-off oven with the light on overnight. here's what it looked like this morning:
![]() judging by this, i think things are coming along pretty well! we'll see how things go as time passes. |
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kiwi
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Joined: 16 February 2010 Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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Posted: 01 May 2010 at 17:40 |
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I thought sour dough is really a european thing?
EDIT (in origin I mean) |
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kai time!
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Hoser
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Joined: 06 February 2010 Location: Cumberland, RI Status: Offline Points: 3454 |
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Posted: 02 May 2010 at 03:25 |
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From Wikipedia History of sourdough
Sourdough likely originated in Ancient Egyptian times around 1500 BC, and was likely the first form of leavening available to bakers. Sourdough remained the usual form of leavening down into the European Middle Ages[12] until being replaced by barm from the beer brewing process, and then later purpose-cultured yeast. Bread made from 100 percent rye flour, which is very popular in the northern half of Europe, is usually leavened with sourdough. Baker's yeast is not useful as a leavening agent for rye bread, as rye does not contain enough gluten. The structure of rye bread is based primarily on the starch in the flour, as well as other carbohydrates known as pentosans; however, rye amylase is active at substantially higher temperatures than wheat amylase, causing the structure of the bread to disintegrate as the starches are broken down during cooking. The lowered pH of a sourdough starter therefore inactivates the amylases when heat cannot, allowing the carbohydrates in the bread to gel and set properly.[13] In the southern part of Europe, where baguette and even panettone were originally made with wheat flour and rye flour, sourdough has become less common as the standard of living has risen; it has been replaced by the faster growing baker's yeast, sometimes supplemented with longer fermentation rests to allow for some bacterial activity to build flavor. Sourdough was the main bread made in Northern California during the California Gold Rush, and it remains a part of the culture of San Francisco today. The bread became so common that "sourdough" became a general nickname for the gold prospectors. The nickname remains in "Sourdough Sam", the mascot of the San Francisco 49ers. The sourdough tradition was carried into Alaska and the western Canadian territories during the Klondike Gold Rush. Conventional leavenings such as yeast and baking soda were much less reliable in the conditions faced by the prospectors. Experienced miners and other settlers frequently carried a pouch of starter either around their neck or on a belt; these were fiercely guarded to keep from freezing. Ironically, freezing does not kill a sourdough starter; excessive heat does. Old hands came to be called "sourdoughs", a term that is still applied to any Alaskan old-timer.[14] San Francisco sourdough is the most famous sourdough bread made in the U.S. today. In contrast to sourdough production in other areas of the country, the San Francisco variety has remained in continuous production for nearly 150 years, with some bakeries (e.g., Boudin Bakery among others) able to trace their starters back to California's territorial period. It is a white bread characterized by a pronounced sourness (not all varieties are as sour as San Francisco sourdough), so much so that the dominant strain of lactobacillus in sourdough starters was named Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis. Sourdough also became popular because of its ability to combine well with seafoods and soups such as cioppino, clam chowder and chili. Sourdough has not enjoyed the popularity it once had since bread became mass-produced. However, many restaurant chains, such as Cracker Barrel, keep it as a menu staple. Manufacturers make up for the lack of yeast and bacterial culture by introducing an artificially made mix known as bread improver into their dough. |
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Go ahead...play with your food!
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TasunkaWitko
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Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: Chinook, MT Status: Offline Points: 9389 |
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Posted: 03 May 2010 at 21:33 |
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also, for those interested, you can click here in order to get a free package of sourdough starter that goes back in origin all the way to 1847. this service is from a group calling itself carl's friends, named after a great old-timer who kept the starter alive and gave it away to his friends and anyone else who asked. all you need to do is send a self-addressed stamped envelope.
the link has a lot of other great information on how to revive sourdough starter and some great recipes! i sent away for some last week and will report on findings when it arrives.
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jdonly1
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Joined: 12 February 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 180 |
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Posted: 08 May 2010 at 17:59 |
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There is nothing from stopping you from using flour water and yeast as a starter and letting it ferment.Thats all we used in the bakery for years
Allot of bakery's cheat now by using bottled sour flavour ![]() |
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TasunkaWitko
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Posted: 09 May 2010 at 09:43 |
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bottled sour flavour? blasphemy!
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TasunkaWitko
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Posted: 09 May 2010 at 21:41 |
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it looks like it's coming along fine and i am eager to give it a try!
i doubled it today and gave half to aaron (exploreralpha), who lives across the street from me. after setting in the fridge for a few days to ripen, we will both be able to double our starters again and then start using them for breads, biscuits, pancakes etc! |
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Hoser
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Joined: 06 February 2010 Location: Cumberland, RI Status: Offline Points: 3454 |
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Posted: 11 May 2010 at 02:52 |
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I don't use yeast at all with mine...just start with rye flower and pineapple juice in the seed culture. Then once you make it into a mother starter, just remember to refresh it before you use it. I agree that bottle sour is blasphemy...anything that tastes that good is worth waiting for...got to let mother nature do her job
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Go ahead...play with your food!
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TasunkaWitko
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Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: Chinook, MT Status: Offline Points: 9389 |
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Posted: 13 May 2010 at 16:24 |
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alright, guys - after letting it ripen for a few days in the fridge, i doubled it last night and it is sitting and feeding as we speak. looks good!
i've never done this before, so i wasn't sure what to expect. it doesn't smell bad per se, but definitely not what i expected. as far as consistency and taste goes, i think i am right on the money. looking forward to trying this, probably saturday or sunday!
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Beer-B-Q
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Rest in Peace - 22 DEC 2011 Joined: 12 February 2010 Location: Kansas City, Kansas Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Posted: 25 May 2010 at 14:02 |
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I guess I need to try it to see if I am able to make it or if I am a Failure...LOL
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Boilermaker
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Joined: 23 July 2010 Location: Marietta, GA Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Posted: 23 July 2010 at 10:51 |
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I was about to post the link to Carl Griffith's 1847 Starter when I saw that ron had already done so. I have used this starter for years and it makes very good bread and it is really neat to use something that has been around for so long. Legend has it that the old timers used to chink the logs in their cabins with the stuff and when they wanted a new starter they would chip out a piece and use it. Some old starters have supposedly even been recovered using this method.
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TasunkaWitko
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Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: Chinook, MT Status: Offline Points: 9389 |
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Posted: 26 October 2010 at 11:32 |
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my second attempt seems to be doing fine. i had been just making sourdough pancakes now and then, and feeding it once a week or so. a couple of weeks ago i tried making sourdough bread using a ratio that rivet suggested (i should have written it down, but i think it was 1 (or maybe 2) cup(s) starter, 2 cups warm water, 4 cups flour and a little salt). what came out was definitely sourdough bread, but it seemed much too dense. crust was very ncie-looking but rock-hard. i know for sure that the dough was had a little too much water in it, and i also suspect that i did not give it enough time for a second rising. will try again, possibly this weekend. interestingly, the dough was extremely smooth-textured and smelled very good. i added no yeast and rising of the dough was slow, but it definitely had action. so far, my starter has absolutely no packaged yeast in it, only flour, water, the initial drizzle of honey to get it started back in may, and occasionally i add a quarter-cup or so of potato flakes. at first, i fed it every week, now i only feed it about once a month or so and it seems ok. i keep it in the fridge, but not frozen, in a plastic container - i would prefer a crock but don't have one. i use wooden or plastic spoons whenever i can, but a couple of times i have used metal. every now and then it gets a nasty-looking grey "water" layer on top, but i stir it back in and it seems just fine - in fact, stirring it back in seems to bring the texture of the starter back to normal, which is a very smooth, silky texture.
when i taste the starter, it seems EXTREMELY sour to me, bordering on OMG sour - as in, i wonder if i should be throwing it away because something is wrong, but the bread that i did make, in spite of its being overly-dense, had a good flavour that was only mildly sour - i would like to get just a little more sourness out of it, and imagine this would have happened if i would have let it rise longer.
all-in-all, it seems to be progressing just fine, with or without my help!
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woodywoodduck
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Joined: 15 September 2010 Location: Harrisburg PA Status: Offline Points: 146 |
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Posted: 16 February 2011 at 15:16 |
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Hey Tas,
Thanks Bud!! don't know to do this
You created me into a Bread Fool!
I Googled "Sourdough Bread Starter" and looked around and then hit myself on the forehead and said... "Dam Duck, The Foods Site has to have it!!"
I want to make a good sourdough bread and here it is on how to get it started!
I Also am going to do an "Amish Friendship" Bread Starter...Wife got a starter back in 2001 and we kept it going for 2 Whole Years! I told her I found the recipe on how to start Amish Friendship Bread and she said to get to WORK lmao...
I have to say Thank You to you and all the others on the Site!!! DIYASUB Also for getting me on here!
So much to choose from and so little time to cook....I'm going to be a cooking fool when summer gets here and I have a lot more time on my hands to do more...not only will it be cooking things from looking on here but also the BBQs, Picking Wild Berries to make Jellies and Wines and making homemade beer and Soda...and then the winter time of hunting and making my deer bologna, scrapple, jerky from the deer I get...oh and Trout Season is a coming...Smoke Trout, I hate trout but love it when it is smoked, so I end up making myself a mess to eat...
Glad I looked in here for the recipe...it is more indepth then what I found....
Thanks All...just had to let you know that I'm getting into making more things from this site and Enjoying myself...Hum, does anyone think the wife will let me go with my Dreams? Winery, Brewery and a Bakery and doing pig and beef roasts for folks in the summer?
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TasunkaWitko
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Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: Chinook, MT Status: Offline Points: 9389 |
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Posted: 16 February 2011 at 15:55 |
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hey, woody - you give this a go using the recipe above and i guarantee results. i had great luck with pancakes, bread and other stuff - twice, the starter was "forgotten" in theback of the fridge and i thought it died, but it was still fine and with a little feeding came back as good as ever. and as you know, the longer it lives, the better it tastes!
also glad that you're enjoying it here ~ that's what we're for! we figure the more we get psoted in ehre, the better recource it will be for everyone ~
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